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doggy  
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:24:06 AM(UTC)
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Fully in favor of v17 and its desktopcature and all the possibilities I would like to see some form of v16 capabilitys be kept.

So far there have been solutions to make things work all the way to installing vMix on the to capture pc .

THis is in many case just not an option especialy at venues were one needs to capture simple screen ( sport) from one of the event's computers ( ability to get their on screen resultlists or scoring.

So far I have been lucky to even let the screencapture utility be started on those computers due to the fact they did not interfere. some don't even know the capabilitys (in regard to vMix) of their computer , just that their system works for their purpose containing information I like to capture and display. But otherwise touching their system is a big NO. (at the moment we are adding value to the event while at the same time ' hacking as they see it ' as it were into their system in an attempt to put them over the line to let them see the benefit to their event. we can not brute force to change their mindset yet , so we have to tread carefully to even link to that information and proof our point for them to advance)

it is not about an ability to capture video or fast moving items from thier computer , just simple screenshots

I would prefer to be able to get direct access to their info in other ways but that's just how it is at those moments and the ability to take that info and incorporate in a stream is at those moment a huge plus.

in that light I would like to have some form of capability to capture the old way too while being able to take the benefits of v17 in general.

Please Martin , if there is even a small chance of this ability to be available in v17 to allow screencaptures of older systems without having to interfere with their system at all please consider. don't even mind if its a different exe to run from usb drive as we have done so far.

Very exited with the NDI and v17 and ist various posibilities but until 'the other side' catches up we currently are losing what was working for both sides.

Thank you



thanks 1 user thanked doggy for this useful post.
Code4Sale on 5/1/2016(UTC)
admin  
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 11:52:26 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

Have you tried the latest vMix Desktop Capture download? (17.0.0.62)
A fix was added a week or so back that means it can now be run on most systems without needing to install anything.

I tested this by running it on a brand new Windows 7 SP1 installation with nothing else installed.

Just need to extract the zip file into a directory, or even have that directory on a flash drive and you are good to go!

Regards,

Martin
vMix
doggy  
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:37:55 PM(UTC)
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Hi Martin

Thank you for reponding

I did what you asked (which I did before already in fact).
I tested with an old laptop (win7 32 bit intel pentium M processor 1.7Ghz. in fact it sould not even run W7 ;-)) and confirmed the v16 desktopcapture working.

changing for v17 I get only a 'Display1' to choose from (no individual open windows but it remains black.
on the old laptop I do get an indication of 2 connections sometimes changing to 4.

maybe I should just hope I never encounter that old of a system at a venue or at least hope they have all appropriate drivers installed (yes they do exist those if it works why bother ones).
could be asking to much too if so ignore please.
kane  
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 3:01:14 PM(UTC)
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Can you install NDI Tools (ndi.newtek.com) on that system and see if NDI Monitor will see the output of the desktop capture tool? It would let you know if the problem is network related or with the system itself?

Kane Peterson
NewTek
doggy  
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 3:12:01 PM(UTC)
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Hi Kane,

No this laptop is too old to install those tools hence no NDI ( CPU error : This application requires SSSE3 instructions to run . please use a different machine)

Guy
jip  
#6 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 4:12:43 PM(UTC)
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doggy wrote:


changing for v17 I get only a 'Display1' to choose from (no individual open windows but it remains black.
on the old laptop I do get an indication of 2 connections sometimes changing to 4.

maybe I should just hope I never encounter that old of a system at a venue or at least hope they have all appropriate drivers installed (yes they do exist those if it works why bother ones).
could be asking to much too if so ignore please.



I had the same problem of black NDI Desktop Capture last weekend.

At times it's just not possible to install special apps to other computers :/
kane  
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 6:35:24 PM(UTC)
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doggy wrote:
Hi Kane,

No this laptop is too old to install those tools hence no NDI ( CPU error : This application requires SSSE3 instructions to run . please use a different machine)

Guy


I believe that NDI in general needs those instructions for it to work at all, so this machine is to old. SSSE3 first started appearing in CPUs around 2006, so you are talking about systems 10 years or older!

Kane Peterson
NewTek
admin  
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 11:45:10 PM(UTC)
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doggy,

While vMix Desktop Capture is running but you see black for Display 1 in vMix double click the "Ready (x connections)" text
and it should bring up an error log window if there is an error preventing the screen from being captured.

I will have to investigate why it is not showing the windows, might be an older Windows 7 thing, less likely to be because something isnt installed (try enabling aero if its not enabled already)
doggy  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 6:01:04 AM(UTC)
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Hi Martin

Quote:
System.Runtime.InteropServices.SEHException: External component has thrown an exception.
at vMixDesktopCaptureLibrary.NDISendWin32.bgrx_to_uyvy_cond(IntPtr p_src_bgrx, Int32 src_bgrx_stride, IntPtr p_src_bgrx_old, Int32 src_bgrx_old_stride, IntPtr p_dst_uyvy, Int32 dst_uyvy_stride, Int32 xres, Int32 yres)
at vMixDesktopCaptureLibrary.Win32Utils.CopyRGBA(IntPtr src, IntPtr srcPrev, Int32 srcStride, IntPtr dst, Int32 dstStride, Size sz)
at vMixDesktopCaptureLibrary.DesktopCaptureServer._CaptureThread()
cutter07  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 8:51:17 AM(UTC)
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To have the old capture also integrated into V17 would be really nice — the old capture catch almost every old PC :-).
admin  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19:13 PM(UTC)
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cutter07 wrote:
To have the old capture also integrated into V17 would be really nice — the old capture catch almost every old PC :-).


For those having problems with the new desktop capture, please report them in this thread so we can resolve them.
They could be bugs with the new desktop capture I can easily fix and may not be related to the old PC at all..

doggy,

What sort of CPU is on that computer and what is the screen resolution / graphics card etc?
Thanks!
Code4Sale  
#12 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2016 9:54:57 AM(UTC)
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(DesktopCapture17 != DesktopCapture15)

DesktopCapture17 looks to be a very promising new option, however, it after testing it on a variety of systems, we have deemed it's functionality to be of beta (not release) quality. Simply put, while it is very fast, we found it very unreliable, and difficult to work with as a replacement for our use.

The design decision to remove support for the "legacy" desktop capture also breaks all customer presets that made use of that major feature.

Customers that purchased copies of VMix for it's excellent desktop capture feature may find Version 17 to currently be un-workable for thier setup.

The design decision to suddenly remove support for a major feature is an unusual move in software publishing. The common industry practice is to "fork" the code, and continue to permit the limited use of the legacy feature, while encouraging the adaptation of the new replacement feature.

This allows customers time to adapt to the new feature, and allows the publisher time to work out any major adaptation issues that users report. Futher, this ensures that users can place faith in the product's given major features will not suddenly change in a way that might render the software to be unusable.

This is especially important for "big ticket" software, where a company invests into a given system and builds onto the system with high dollar hardware and training.

Simply put, business invest into systems they can rely on, and they expect publishers to follow industry standards in producing upgrades that are reasonably compatible with their investment.

As a software developer and publisher, I see no technical reason why the code could not have been easily forked to provide both the legacy desktop capture, and the new desktop capture. I am also reasonably certain that the new desktop capture feature was not sufficiently tested as a working replacement before release.

The only reason I can come up with for the decision to remove legacy capture support is some sort of unknown licensing or legal issue.

If licensing is not the issue, then in my professional opinion, this was a poor design decision, and there is little technical reason why it could also not be easily remedied.

Since we do not know the reason, customers must now question their investment in VMix, since major feature changes may not be handled in an industry standard way.

In other words, can your business afford to invest into a system that may change on a whim?

I do hope we get some support for legacy capture.

If it is a licensing issue, then perhaps Martin would share the specifications for the input, perhaps a code example snippet, and allow users to compile their own version of the capture app, or provide a dll that would connect it somehow to vMix.

Actually, the specifications for "userInput" dll is a great idea, regardless of the status of the legacy desktop capture issue.

What do you say Martin? Can you give us an easy hook?

Do that, and you might find a really nice 3rd party marketplace for VMix add on's!

I will start a seperate thread for that request :)

Joe
admin  
#13 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2016 12:37:46 PM(UTC)
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Sorry Joe, instead of taking the time to write a lengthy post about why you think it is "beta quality", perhaps help us out with some bug reports on how the new desktop capture is unreliable specifically, what systems it did not work on and why?

Also I haven't removed support for a major feature, I have upgraded it to something I strongly believe to be much better.
(It's faster, smoother, with better a/v sync, supports 60fps and supports Direct3D/OpenGL apps, all things customers have been requesting for a while)

We have also tested the new desktop capture on a large number of systems without issue before release.
That said, some users have reported problems, so the only way for me to solve them is for detailed reports to be provided.

So it is much better if my time is spent solving any bugs in 17 desktop capture then trying to back port the legacy code which has quite a few dependencies
on code in vMix that no longer exists (or have been refactored).

Steps below:

1. Post the Windows version and the CPU installed in the system.
2. What happens when adding a desktop capture source to vMix (is it blank or does it display an error)
3. Double click the "Ready (x connections)" text in desktop capture app to see a error report, if any.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
Nick Davidson  
#14 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2016 1:43:33 PM(UTC)
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Trying to get Desktop Capture in vMIx 17 to work with MacBook pro.

vMix PC = i5 6600K @ 3.5GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 750 Ti

MacBook Pro = MacBook Pro (13-inch, Late 2011), 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 8 GB RAM, Intel HD Graphics 3000 512 MB
latest Desktop Capture is running.

vMix PC and Macbook are connected directly with 1 Ethernet cable.

vMix PC show, MacBook Pro with multiple NDI source options from the MacBook including the Google Chrome as an input.

All inputs remain black all the time.

What should I do to resolve this?

Thanks!
admin  
#15 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2016 1:49:22 PM(UTC)
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Hi Nick,

Can you confirm the OSX version on the Macbook?

Thanks,

Martin
vMix
Nick Davidson  
#16 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2016 1:51:03 PM(UTC)
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OSX 10.11
Windows 10 on the PC
Nick Davidson attached the following image(s):
NDI black inputs.png (602kb) downloaded 23 time(s).

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wwdv  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, May 3, 2016 7:47:14 AM(UTC)
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I noticed that the NDI desktop capture uses much more cpu resources then the old desktop capture in Vmix16 (56% vs 8% at 25fps) when capturing just a static desktop.
(capture PC: Win7 / T5500 CPU )
Enabling GPU acceleration doesn't matter.

admin  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, May 3, 2016 2:00:08 PM(UTC)
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That's interesting, is it 32bit windows?

Most of the increased CPU cases I have seen have been a result of the faster capturing frame rate now possible.
For example on some older machines that would capture the entire desktop at around 8fps can now do 20+fps but at a higher CPU usage as a result.

Can you double check to confirm both old and new reach 25fps?
admin  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 3, 2016 2:01:17 PM(UTC)
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Nick,

The image you sent appears to be of something else, would be it possible to resend?
wwdv  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, May 3, 2016 4:22:09 PM(UTC)
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It's win7 32bit.

edit:
I was comparing 2 different PC's.

The old desktop capture does on this PC also 60% cpu and max 4 fps.
The new desktop capture does 7 fps, therefore it works better anyway :)
Don't know why this PC has such problems with the desktop capture.

Tested both desktop capture program on a HP DC7800 (core2duo 3GHZ E8400):
old: 17fps (35% cpu)
new: 25fps (40% cpu)


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