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David_in_Philly  
#1 Posted : Saturday, May 23, 2020 5:10:30 AM(UTC)
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My clients and I love, love, love MultiView and use it for every show. MultiViews are at the core of virtual panel discussions which are more necessary and used in these pandemic times than ever before. There are a number of elements of multiviews, though, that are slow to set-up, don't work as expected or require work-arounds - some of which are, thankfully, available through shortcuts. Here's my short-list of problem descriptions and feature requests for consideration.

1. Copying position settings from one overlay to the next in the same multiview.
While there is currently this great feature throughout Vmix that lets one copy settings from one input to another, there is no apparent way to directly copy the settings from one overlay layer to another. Here's the problem, the current process is exacting, but slow. I find it necessary to use paper and pencil to capture and then manually input values rather than copying and pasting each individual value. A "copy from" function with a drop down showing all the other overlays in the current input's multiview might be one way to improve this.

As much as I would like to see related functionality like "align" and "distribute," I realize that this could require a greater architectural change in Vmix; working across all overlays in a single multiview simultaneously, I'm not sure this would be worth the time and effort.

2. Borders and their impact on merges
Sometimes you just need, or your clients want matching borders on the overlay boxes. The method of doing this in traditional production switchers is adding a border and controlling its type, width, color and softness or transparency from within the "key" settings of each overlay. In Vmix, this requires a bit more work; first creating a color background (the border color) and then adding an overlay with a slighly zoomed out image (typically video) - and then adding that composite as an overlay in another input. The problem surfaces when you try to merge that input with another. The backgrounds (borders) move independently of their overlays; they aren't bound together. So, you end up having to make a decision about whether to give up the merge capability in favor of borders or give up the borders in favor of the ability to properly merge.

I'd love to see Vmix adopt a similar approach to traditional production switchers for adding/managing borders; either including this functionality in the "position" interface for each overlay or in its own interface - complete with the "copy from" functionality described in #1 above. I would expect that taking this approach would also solve the issue with "unbound" borders moving independently during merges.

Also, over the last few years we've seen a semi-transparent beveled edge border become increasingly popular. It would be great if that border type could be included too.

3. Changing overlay inputs on the fly
In a fast-paced, live, virtual panel discussion, it's hard to predict how the conversation will go and what parings, tripplings or other groupings of moderator and panelists will be needed. It takes a lot of time to open the input to multi-view and change inputs used in the overlay. Thankfully, you can do this in shortcuts and I've used a Streamdeck to launch these shortcuts. The time it takes to set these up is non-trivial, though, as you have to plan for each possible combination of panelists in, for instance, the left box of a two-box layout or the right box - and with 7 panelists and a moderator, that's a lot of possible combinations. Then, if you have a three-box layout, with moderator always on top, you have to set up all those possible combination again. I tried to use mix busses for this purpose, but you can't have more than three.

Though I don't yet have a strong opinion on how to improve this, one thing I wonder is if we could have access to this through a web interface, so that an assistant can do this, rather than the technical director himself. I did have an assistant operate the Stream Deck for me as I called, "two box, Jake on left, Martin on right" and that worked pretty well, but the set-up time was significant.

How can we improve this?

Thanks.

-David
thanks 4 users thanked David_in_Philly for this useful post.
LeeL on 5/27/2020(UTC), Sergio on 12/13/2020(UTC), Roi on 5/20/2021(UTC), cutter07 on 8/9/2021(UTC)
a.basso  
#2 Posted : Saturday, May 23, 2020 4:09:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: David_in_Philly Go to Quoted Post
3. Changing overlay inputs on the fly
In a fast-paced, live, virtual panel discussion, it's hard to predict how the conversation will go and what parings, tripplings or other groupings of moderator and panelists will be needed. It takes a lot of time to open the input to multi-view and change inputs used in the overlay.


For what regards point number 3 of your post, we manage that using shortcuts. Each of the several "base" inputs (we are on a project with 10 inputs at the moment) is associated to 4 different shortcuts to put that specific input in one of the 4 boxes of the multiview. It works, and it's quick enough (I would say equal or faster than having the "average" vision mixer operator preparing the DVE on a traditional hardware mixer like a big Sony or Grass Valley).

Consider that we use a normal keyboard, not X-Keys or MIDI controller (it will be a lot easier with one of those).
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David_in_Philly on 5/24/2020(UTC)
dmwkr  
#3 Posted : Saturday, May 23, 2020 5:00:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: David_in_Philly Go to Quoted Post


2. Borders and their impact on merges



I think I heard there will be something coming in vMix 24.

Originally Posted by: David_in_Philly Go to Quoted Post

3. Changing overlay inputs on the fly


That is a good example how the Dynamic Inputs feature could help in setting up and managing the shortcuts:
https://forums.vmix.com/posts/t17512-Dynamic-Inputs-and-Functions-for-Shortcuts

Maybe you want to +1 it. :)
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David_in_Philly on 5/24/2020(UTC)
doggy  
#4 Posted : Saturday, May 23, 2020 5:19:33 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
3. Changing overlay inputs on the fly


Have you checked using mini Mixes within your multiviews ?
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David_in_Philly on 5/24/2020(UTC)
David_in_Philly  
#5 Posted : Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:30:49 PM(UTC)
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Yes, but I believe only 3 are available at a time - which isn’t enough.
LeeL  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2020 4:24:27 AM(UTC)
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David I hope you don't mind but I would like to echo your suggestions and add to your excellent input.

Key Component
I absolutely agree with David that Multiview is an important and critical element in any vmix production.
I also agree it could use some serious love and attention.

Multiview 2.0 Request

1. Multiview Layout
This has been mentioned so no need to dwell on it but better layout tools in order to improve the production quality is a big issue.
Yes we can all jump in and out of vmix to photoshop or affinity photo. But this is time consuming and if we have to make one small change in the layout and now we are jumping back out of vmix.

2. Correct Labels in Position
Why in the world when we click on Multiview we see Each input name BUT when in POSITIOM the drop down changes to OVERLAY 1...10 ?
Why not Also display the Input name in the positioning menu instead of Overlay 1, 2, 3...?

3. ONE Multiview Menu
It is very inefficient and time consuming to have to jump back and forth between multiview and positioning.

Ideally combing Multiview menu with the positioning would make a log more sense.
I have attached a VERY rough mock up of just one way to combine multiview / positioning and layout effects.

- EVERYTHING on one quick easy to edit page.
- When you select position (which should be renamed to EDIT in this context it would put red border highlighting the object that is being edited.
- RENAME positioning labels. At least in the english version why can't the positioning say what it really is in human terms. Left, Right, Top, Bottom, etc.
- EFFECTS - Borders, Drop shadows, color, etc could also be this one page under effects.
- Someone asked for blur effect, there must be a graphics library that can be complied into this system to provide additional effects.
- CAUTION - I am NOT suggesting that vmix become a graphics editor. But a few basic tools would be appreciated. Maybe a plugin Architecture so third party tools could be use.

OUTSIDE BOX idea... Is there any way to integrate GT Designer into multiview or some interaction. There are a lot of the tools we are asking for in GT Designer so more than half the work has already been done there.

4.Multiview Container
I will be up front and say this idea might not make sense or maybe there is another way to accomplish it but...
But what about a multiview container input that combines or bundles all of a Multiview elements into one object ?

In other words, having to add inputs for every single multiview element clutters up your monitor with dozens of little inputs. Logos, titles, bugs, etc. What about a NEW MULTIVEW input type that is a bundle of elements.

5. WHY NO CANCEL IN MULTIVIEW ?
Maybe this is user error on my part but, If I accidentally move the wrong layer or make a mistake, why is there no CONTROL Z undo or Cancel ? The only option is to RESET or X which saves our mistake ?


multiview 2.0.png (533kb) downloaded 13 time(s).
thanks 2 users thanked LeeL for this useful post.
David_in_Philly on 5/31/2020(UTC), cutter07 on 8/9/2021(UTC)
pingu2k  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:22:56 PM(UTC)
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+1
DHoude  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2020 8:28:49 AM(UTC)
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+1 on the Soft Edge or Faded edges to overlays & multiview.
LucaL  
#9 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:21:40 AM(UTC)
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+1 to everything that has been suggested here.

X-Y-Z axes? I agree, this is not a CAD software...

And many +1's to a Control Z (Undo) feature.

-L
David_in_Philly  
#10 Posted : Sunday, May 31, 2020 1:47:33 PM(UTC)
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+1
Prodution Dept.  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:57:08 AM(UTC)
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+1
advisiontv  
#12 Posted : Thursday, June 4, 2020 7:33:17 AM(UTC)
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+1
Also change rotation to degrees!

When I am in "postion" with a lot of layers, I always forget what is on which layer! It would be nice to have the source names as we do in Multiview
yimmyo  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 8, 2020 5:55:47 AM(UTC)
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+1!
gmillward  
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 3, 2021 1:24:18 PM(UTC)
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+1
vika  
#15 Posted : Saturday, May 29, 2021 11:56:44 PM(UTC)
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+1
Poppa Monsoon  
#16 Posted : Monday, May 31, 2021 4:12:56 AM(UTC)
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3. Changing overlay inputs on the fly

Have you considered using the HOVER functionality to select your inputs when changing - this can speed things up for "on the fly" source switching

LeeL  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, June 1, 2021 3:43:24 PM(UTC)
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop adding new features to vMix !!!
WE NEED LAYERS/MULTIVIEW 2.0

We desperately want and need fixes, tweaks and improvements in the usability of the existing features, then add new bells.

The Layers/Multiview touches every production. It is the heart of vMix from a production standpoint.
Yet it gets little or No attention.

- Would be a lot of work to rewrite Layers - YES
- Would it change the way we all are use to building layers, - YES
- Is Layers broken and does cause users hours and hours of needless pre-production effort - YES

I can't say this strongly enough, Its time to suck it up and FIX LAYERS / MULTIVIEW.
I am sorry if I hurt Martin or someone else's feelings who wrote Layers but it looks and operates like it was written by someone completely outside of vMix development team.

CANCEL / UNDO
Really?? Can we please get an undo / cancel feature.
Every other module in vMix has a cancel function.
This is BASIC Programming 101, who writes a module without the ability to NOT write the changes ?
This is a BUG and should be fixed before any other updates to vMix.

LAYOUT REDESIGN
I have been in the PC / Software industry for a LONG time and Layers is the worse design for this type application that I have ever used. Anyone who knows anything about GUI design understands the goal is to be able to reduce the number of mouse clicks for any given function. But I think who ever wrote Layers tried to make it as complicated as possible and use more clicks than any application ever written.

A. MOVE Presets
Why is half of the screen real estate take up with Red & Blue boxes ?
There is no reason why that can not be on another screen and use that space for Editing / Position !
We ALL use the Edit function, not everyone uses the preset boxes. (which make no sense by the way)

B. Please Speak HUMAN here on Earth
We are not computers or CAD users we are TV production people.
PLEASE DUMP the X Y Z X1 Y1 crap.

I know you guys are PC geeks who start values at Zero instead of 1. And maybe you think in X Y Z but YOUR customers paying for your product do not.
Is it too much to ask for LEFT, RIGHT, TOP, BOTTOM ???

And while you are at it, how about 0-100% Instead Zoom of 3.271.


FINALLY
I would be happy to mock up some GUI designs and I am sure there are even more talented GUI designers here that would be happy to help. But it should be obvious by now that I am frustrated by the lack of interest in the developers in making a good product an easy to use product.

I GET IT !
I understand, honestly. As a former programmer it a lot more fun to write cool features and the challenge of seeing if you have what it takes to write code that can handle 8 camera replays. Writing GUI code is boring and especially that is "good enough" and works.

But every product has a life cycle and you must be aware that the product is starting to reach an entirely new group of users. Us old dogs are use to dealing with clunky software and command line scripts. But as the industry matures and at some point if vMix does not address the usability of the product then it leaves an opening for other product offerings. And the usability will be rejected by those users who realize that time is money and the time involved in pre-production cost of a vMix system far outweights a system that easier to use. Even one that might not have all the vMix features.

The computer industry is full of dead companies that had superior technology. But the industry shifted or usability became more important than more bells and whistles.

I know there will be those of you who don't agree and with my perspective, which is fine. But, trust me there are those of who who do and remember many multi-billion dollar companies everyone thought would always be on top. And now they are not even in business.
thanks 2 users thanked LeeL for this useful post.
cutter07 on 8/9/2021(UTC), LucaL on 8/30/2021(UTC)
Martin Block  
#18 Posted : Thursday, August 26, 2021 4:38:45 PM(UTC)
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+1
Achim Bossert  
#19 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2022 10:59:04 PM(UTC)
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+1 to all of that. Especially the names on the Position screen (not Main and 1-10). I always forget on which layer the source I want to change is, so I have to go back to the other Window to check. This would also be solved if the parameters and layers would be on the same page.

I also want to add the option to allign layers to each other with one buttom. Or to spread them evenly. If I want to have 3 croped layers on a background with same spaces in between this always takes so much time to set up.

Thank you!
joe-rtb  
#20 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2022 1:43:09 AM(UTC)
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Hi everyone, I just registered to echo the requests stated above..

Namely an undo/redo function! Absolutely essential.

The ability to copy/paste and save/load presets related to position information (zoom, pan, crop, rotate etc.) as well as colour key & colour adjust (because why not) would save sooooo much time.

Please vMix!

Incredibly powerful software otherwise.. LOVE IT! :-)
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