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Hypohamish  
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2020 4:03:26 AM(UTC)
Hypohamish

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Hey all!

Was hoping someone could feedback if they've used a 10920x in a build and what it's general performance is like?

A general use case for me is 8 callers, 2-3 NDI outputs, then stream and record (usually 2 recordings!)


On my current build (i7-9700k) this absolutely redlines my CPU and even causes a lot of issues, to the point where I have to push some stuff to other machines (such as using an NDI out into a different machine to handle encoding/streaming/recording).

My colleague has a build with the Threadripper 3960x and it handles all of this and much more (absolute beast), but trying to figure if I can save a few £ by taking a cheaper core that's still more high performance than what I currently have.


Can anyone help?


Cheers!
H
richardgatarski  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2020 8:36:49 AM(UTC)
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what else (hw) do you have on the system that crossed the red line?

discussing the cpu only is like talking about 100 Euro.
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2020 6:29:38 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
8 callers, 2-3 NDI outputs, then stream and record (usually 2 recordings!). On my current build (i7-9700k) this absolutely redlines my CPU and even causes a lot of issues

I do this regularly (and even more) with a 3rd gen i7 (3770K) on a Z68 chipset motherboard, 16G of DDR3 RAM and a GTX960 ! The CPU never goes above 50% and the render time fluctuates around 20ms !

Your problem is not the CPU!

Which graphics card do you have?
Hypohamish  
#4 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2020 8:31:33 PM(UTC)
Hypohamish

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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
8 callers, 2-3 NDI outputs, then stream and record (usually 2 recordings!). On my current build (i7-9700k) this absolutely redlines my CPU and even causes a lot of issues

I do this regularly (and even more) with a 3rd gen i7 (3770K) on a Z68 chipset motherboard, 16G of DDR3 RAM and a GTX960 ! The CPU never goes above 50% and the render time fluctuates around 20ms !

Your problem is not the CPU!

Which graphics card do you have?



RTX 2070 - GPU is not the issue, and I'm doing my monitoring via task manager, not by vMix's stats.


GPU sits at less than 10% usage, the CPU on the other hand frequently jumps 80-100%, and obviously if it hits 100% and then tries to do something intense, it'll lock up and cause frame drops, or NDI issues, or anything else.

My render time sits around the same mark.





I absolutely do not understand how you're not seeing any performance issues only using a CPU with 4 cores



edit: to confirm, by 'callers' I mean vMix Call functionality, getting all 8 (the max you can have) in at once.
DWAM  
#5 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2020 9:43:08 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
to confirm, by 'callers' I mean vMix Call functionality

Got that! That's what I'm talking about indeed.
Quote:
I absolutely do not understand how you're not seeing any performance issues only using a CPU with 4 cores

Trust me! I'm not bullshiting you.

More details:
- my vMix computers are dedicated to vMix, meaning there's nothing else than vMix and the required drivers to make it work with BMD cards, audio interface, midi controllers.
That's it! No Office, no Adobe crap, no third party apps, not even NDI tools (vMix doesn't need it). As a result, when idle, the CPU is between 0 and 1%. Nothing in the background, no unnecessary services activated.
- second, my projects are very well organized and optimized. For a basic production I have around 50 inputs, sometimes 70-80. Nothing goes into vMix without prior testing/analysing. When the provided media do not fit my requirements, they are converted or re-encoded to what I know works best. For example, a ProRes video might use 10/15% CPU for playout. The same converted in H.264 will barely use 1%.
- everything I do in vMix (and I do a lot) is carefully managed. I always try to find the best way to set up my projects based on recommendations (for example use Lists for videos) and my personal experience. And trust me, I ask vMix a lot and my projects are often very complex and very demanding. I always have several NDI i/o, have 4 monitors, use EXT outs extensively and despite all this, accepting 8 vMixCalls is not a challenge.

In fact I also have a i7 7700K computer with a Z270 chipset, DDR4 RAM and all... It's obviously more powerful and the same project will render twice faster (around 10ms) but the difference is slight when it comes to CPU load (maybe around 10 to 15% less).

So I don't think upgrading your CPU will drastically improve things for you. I feel like it's more a "work method" problem and most likely the fact that your computer has a lot of background processes already running.

My 2 cts...
richardgatarski  
#6 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2020 12:51:58 AM(UTC)
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Hypohamish, are you sure vMix is running on the nVidia card? Check Settings/Performance which graphics card is used.
Edit: I have the same no-problem experiences as DWAM (although I have a strange issue with a couple of seconds frame drops when I run with 1080p60, but that is probably a totally different issue).
Hypohamish  
#7 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2020 12:54:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richardgatarski Go to Quoted Post
Hypohamish, are you sure vMix is running on the nVidia card? Check Settings/Performance which graphics card is used.


Yes, I have it configured correctly

UserPostedImage


I'm happy to hear any other pointers people have - but I had always assumed using the vMix call functionality, you're getting 8 feeds in (so up to 8 h264 decodes) and then sending potentially up to 4 h264 encodes back (for outputs 1-4), so that's an incredibly CPU intense process, no?
DWAM  
#8 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2020 1:27:51 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
I had always assumed using the vMix call functionality, you're getting 8 feeds in (so up to 8 h264 decodes) and then sending potentially up to 4 h264 encodes back (for outputs 1-4), so that's an incredibly CPU intense

All those encodes/encodes are GPU based so it's not CPU intensive at all.
What's demanding when it comes to vMixCall is that, WebRTC being a browser based protocol, each vMixCall is basically "sort of" a browser input. That's why it's very different than other regular inputs and has more impact on the CPU. However, it's very well written and optimized by Martin and your computer should handle 8 calls with no problem at all.
Hypohamish  
#9 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2020 1:38:48 AM(UTC)
Hypohamish

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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
I had always assumed using the vMix call functionality, you're getting 8 feeds in (so up to 8 h264 decodes) and then sending potentially up to 4 h264 encodes back (for outputs 1-4), so that's an incredibly CPU intense

All those encodes/encodes are GPU based so it's not CPU intensive at all.
What's demanding when it comes to vMixCall is that, WebRTC being a browser based protocol, each vMixCall is basically "sort of" a browser input. That's why it's very different than other regular inputs and has more impact on the CPU. However, it's very well written and optimized by Martin and your computer should handle 8 calls with no problem at all.



Then what are other obvious areas for me to look at as to why my machine struggles?

Similar to you, when on a job I strip the machine right back to its barebones, no additional software will be running except potentially something like Zoom to output into, and NDI tools to open studio monitor to watch some of my outputs flexibly.
richardgatarski  
#10 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2020 2:03:21 AM(UTC)
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Try unchecking your Low Latency Input and High Input Performance settings (should not be necessary for vMix Calls).
DWAM  
#11 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2020 3:14:54 AM(UTC)
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I wouldn't use any NDI tools on the same host as vMix. NDI stands for "Network Device interface", it's not supposed to be used on the same host as the source, especially when NDI is quite CPU intensive and it makes no sense to encode to NDI via vMix and decode NDI via Newtek. I'd rather use a small laptop to monitor my externals...
Same for Zoom: I never use it on the same host. Zoom is CPU based and can be fed over the network by NDI.
Hypohamish  
#12 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 1:04:16 AM(UTC)
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So - looking further at what you guys have suggested

Both these rigs are using a completely identical preset. Identical vMix global settings, using identical assets to send/receive callers.


This was the performance of my i7-9700k & RTX 2070
UserPostedImage



This is the performance of a Threadripper 3960x & RTX 3070
UserPostedImage


Does anyone have any suggestions as to why the second system with the 3070 is having a lot more load placed on the GPU, whereas my system (the 2070) isn't?
DWAM  
#13 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 1:39:43 AM(UTC)
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Looks like the 2070 does not work as it should.
Invert the RTX and see what happens...
Hypohamish  
#14 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 3:57:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Looks like the 2070 does not work as it should.
Invert the RTX and see what happens...



Do you mean swap the graphics cards between the two builds? That's something we're planning on trying (and hopefully will in the next couple of days!)
DWAM  
#15 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 4:01:17 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
Do you mean swap the graphics cards between the two builds?

yep
dmwkr  
#16 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 3:28:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hypohamish Go to Quoted Post


Does anyone have any suggestions as to why the second system with the 3070 is having a lot more load placed on the GPU, whereas my system (the 2070) isn't?


Have you double checked that you have activated hardware encoding for recording and streaming?
Hypohamish  
#17 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 3:30:15 PM(UTC)
Hypohamish

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Originally Posted by: dmwkr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hypohamish Go to Quoted Post


Does anyone have any suggestions as to why the second system with the 3070 is having a lot more load placed on the GPU, whereas my system (the 2070) isn't?


Have you double checked that you have activated hardware encoding for recording and streaming?



This was without any recording or streaming even running (but yes, that would normally be set)
xaver  
#18 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 6:50:51 PM(UTC)
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Hypohamish  
#19 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 8:56:08 PM(UTC)
Hypohamish

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Originally Posted by: xaver Go to Quoted Post



Thanks Xaver - while I was running on these drivers for my 2070 test, the 3070 machine unfortunately wasn't, as you can't get drivers old enough for that series (the cards are too new) - but this could actually explain the discrepancy that the 3070 is actually being overused, rather than the 2070 being underused.



This however puts me back to square 1 - why is my CPU being maxed out to 100% when having 8 callers in & sending 4 videos out?


DWAM  
#20 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2020 9:08:32 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
This however puts me back to square 1 - why is my CPU being maxed out to 100% when having 8 callers in & sending 4 videos out?

Yep !
There might be something with THIS card ?
or
maybe something wrong in the BIOS ? (try resetting it to defaults)
or
is this RTX 2070 card in the first PCI-Express 16x slot ?
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