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mitchstein443  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2015 10:32:53 PM(UTC)
mitchstein443

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Stream to IIS Server..

I still can not find anything that can stream to IIS Server with the h.264/aac codecs..

Currently I am getting around this by mixing with vmix, using external vmix virtual device, picking that up with windows media encoder 4 sending it to my windows media services server, then on my IIS machine using vlc player to grab the windows media services stream (http) and restream it rtmp to IIS..

The problem is this system drops a ton of frames (avg drop of 20%) so action shots (pro wrestling) through a roku device looks like stop motion video.. lol

It would be nice to be able to have vmix directly send directly IIS smooth streaming server..

jhebbel  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:11:35 AM(UTC)
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You can stream direct to the rtmp server, not sure why you have all the middle steps involved: http://www.dacast.com/bl...ion-software-guide/#rtmp
Speegs  
#3 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 9:07:19 AM(UTC)
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mitchstein443 wrote:
Stream to IIS Server..

I still can not find anything that can stream to IIS Server with the h.264/aac codecs..

Currently I am getting around this by mixing with vmix, using external vmix virtual device, picking that up with windows media encoder 4 sending it to my windows media services server, then on my IIS machine using vlc player to grab the windows media services stream (http) and restream it rtmp to IIS..

The problem is this system drops a ton of frames (avg drop of 20%) so action shots (pro wrestling) through a roku device looks like stop motion video.. lol

It would be nice to be able to have vmix directly send directly IIS smooth streaming server..



Any reason why you are avoiding RTMP to a streaming server like Wowza, Nimble or something like that?

Most people want HLS+RTMP Streaming Output facilities as they have pretty much every device covered for playback.

There is a reason why as you can see here Smooth is not very popular in statistics collected from 2Billion + Streams monitored by WMPanel in Nov 2015.

http://blog.wmspanel.com...ocols-november-2015.html

Now on your Windows Media Server, isn't that what people connect to directly via they Smooth Stream player you have on your IIS server. Not sure at all why you need the VLC to smooth stream it, then convert it back to RTMP (which is what Vmix sends anyway) and then into IIS.

Seems like some crazy compensation for a strange streaming server configuration to what end I don't understand at this time.

According to something I just read, a Roku doesn't do RTMP (flash avoidance I guess). However works great with HLS (which is also known as cupertino streaming).

So using Wowza or Nimble you are in the right format for Roku.

If you don't want to run our own streaming server (it's easier to let someone else do it). You just need to find a server who will give you a RTMP and HLS stream. (Most do).

RTMP is what you would use if people are playing via Flash. (Seems most browsers are trying to dispose of flash, still works great however until they do).

HLS pretty much for most other things, most mobile devices and the Roku as well. (HLS works well, but has higher latency than flash due to the chunking it does to essentially work via HTTP).

HLS also works in most modern browsers too on desktops.




mitchstein443  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 4:20:29 PM(UTC)
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I have a streaming server already. Server 2008 R2 64 bit - 16 gigs ram and over 20 terrabytes of storage on a static IP with 1G bandwidth. We host years of professional wrestling and boxing videos as well as classic tv. Been running this service since 1988. We started as a BBS Garage Action under Wildcat software DOS 6 and lantastic. We changed to garageaction.com in 1998 NT server 3.5 and IIS, we then started using Unreal media server, in 2002 when most people had better then dialup service we changed the name to TVByDemand.com. In 2005 we switch to Server 2003 IIS and windows media server about 6 years ago I switch to server 2008 and IIS Smooth Streaming for all "by demand" videos and still use windows media services for live broadcasts. Two years ago or so, we started looking into VMIX to replace our videoonics MX1 mixer. Now we are full fledged dedicated to VMIX.

Also two years ago we launched a Roku channel, we have over 250,000 people subscribed to our channel worldwide and thats is where the bulk of viewers come from. I get dozens of emails from people on Roku that they want our live broadcasts available on there.

Ok now here's how I am doing it today.

Vmix sends to an rtmp server and external virtual device. Microsoft expressions encoder picks up the virtual vmix device and encodes for windows media services for live web viewing. BUT it does not have the ability to do H264 so it will not work on roku devices (and now samsung smart tvs).

Now that I have an rtmp service running on my windows server recieving directly from vmix with h264 I'd like to get it from rmtp to rtsp (windows media service) and find an encoder that will run on a server cluster to reencode for IIS smooth streaming.

I've searched the web, I've tried VLC player and the problem with encoding is my server does not have sound capabilities. I've searched for a directx capable virtual soundcard driver, to no results.. even the pay for ones do not seem to integrate with vmix, vlc or ffmpeg.

So all I want to accomplish right now is to the convert the wrapper from rtmp to rtsp that will at least get me running on more platforms and when I have more time to play with coding I can code out the iis reencoding system.

So does anyone have any ideas?

BTW roku supports HLS, BUT not in a publically advertised channel, only in private. Public channels have to use IIS Smooth Streaming and supply at least 4 different levels of encoding. I tried HLS and also html5 and mpeg dash. dash and hls will work on Roku 3 and above (the stick also but stutters at HD) this is why they support IIS smooth Streaming.

I spoke to someone who works for netflix and they told me that most of the smart tv services like roku only allow IIS Smooth Streaming with the h264 codec which explains why microsoft stoped selling the media encoder with the cose codecs so that people like me will need to purchase thier monthly fee'd azure service. Basically putting us out of business..

I currently have 8 servers running in a sudo cluster from 7 different ISPs' each server costs me between 50$ and 100$ a month to run. my monthly budget is $1000.00 to run the whole system. including hardware/software upgrades.
Therefore I look for mcgeiver type ways to do what needs doing to stay relevant and expand..

jhebbel  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 4:28:06 PM(UTC)
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Why not use something like Unreal Media Server to just bouce the RTMP into an RTSP?
mitchstein443  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:30:37 PM(UTC)
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Speegs wrote:
mitchstein443 wrote:
Stream to IIS Server..

I still can not find anything that can stream to IIS Server with the h.264/aac codecs..

Currently I am getting around this by mixing with vmix, using external vmix virtual device, picking that up with windows media encoder 4 sending it to my windows media services server, then on my IIS machine using vlc player to grab the windows media services stream (http) and restream it rtmp to IIS..

The problem is this system drops a ton of frames (avg drop of 20%) so action shots (pro wrestling) through a roku device looks like stop motion video.. lol

It would be nice to be able to have vmix directly send directly IIS smooth streaming server..



Any reason why you are avoiding RTMP to a streaming server like Wowza, Nimble or something like that?

Most people want HLS+RTMP Streaming Output facilities as they have pretty much every device covered for playback.

There is a reason why as you can see here Smooth is not very popular in statistics collected from 2Billion + Streams monitored by WMPanel in Nov 2015.

http://blog.wmspanel.com...ocols-november-2015.html

Now on your Windows Media Server, isn't that what people connect to directly via they Smooth Stream player you have on your IIS server. Not sure at all why you need the VLC to smooth stream it, then convert it back to RTMP (which is what Vmix sends anyway) and then into IIS.

Seems like some crazy compensation for a strange streaming server configuration to what end I don't understand at this time.

According to something I just read, a Roku doesn't do RTMP (flash avoidance I guess). However works great with HLS (which is also known as cupertino streaming).

So using Wowza or Nimble you are in the right format for Roku.

If you don't want to run our own streaming server (it's easier to let someone else do it). You just need to find a server who will give you a RTMP and HLS stream. (Most do).

RTMP is what you would use if people are playing via Flash. (Seems most browsers are trying to dispose of flash, still works great however until they do).

HLS pretty much for most other things, most mobile devices and the Roku as well. (HLS works well, but has higher latency than flash due to the chunking it does to essentially work via HTTP).

HLS also works in most modern browsers too on desktops.






You can not use HLS on a public roku channel. Private yes but not public.
Wowza server does not do proper smooth streaming for Roku and thier tech support does not support nor recomend it.
For instance, netflix uses smooth streaming server to send to Roku and most other smart devices. Wowza server also will not scale out to multi server interfaces with standard windows clustering. I run 8 servers currently, don't know how many Netflix runs.

If I remember during the "platform" design stage of design we tested nimble but it will not run on a windows server so we scratched it. If wowza grows up to scaleability (outside of thier cloud system but in thier perpetual system) we would do a trial of it again. But it's encoding on the fly has a whole lot more overhead on each server then IIS does.. I would probably have to quadruple my processor power in order to switch from IIS to Wowza..

I can come up with a dozen other reasons that IIS is superior to wowza for my needs, I just can't remember all of them, except the one major one, $2000+ dollars on each instance, this is ontop of windows server license which already includes IIS smooth streaming for free..
mitchstein443  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:33:34 PM(UTC)
mitchstein443

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jhebbel wrote:
Why not use something like Unreal Media Server to just bouce the RTMP into an RTSP?


hmmm... Lightbulb.. I am gonna try that! Good ole Unreal media, I started with them with thier beta version before switching over to windows media services..
Speegs  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 28, 2016 3:31:25 AM(UTC)
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Nimble supports Windows now and Azure as well. Can't say I've tried it, I use Centos and well wouldn't want to move to Windows Server seems a backward step to me :) Not a Windows hater, use it all the time and using OSX as well for some things too, but some server software just scales and works better with Linux type operating systems.

I also ran BBS systems Ezycom (DOS & LAN) mostly then Excalibur BBS (Yes a real Graphical Windows based BBS).. Fun times. Then worked for a small ISP, where I had to learn quite a bit about linux operating systems. Once you get your head around linux which is hard at first (learning DOS was hard at first), they do run more predictably than Windows. Usually much cheaper to run a VPS/Cloud Compute as well as you can configure your OS with less bloat.

I don't understand your requirements, but it very much seems like you are using too much middleware you would be better to avoid if possible. Even eliminating one of those components might help quite a lot.

Maybe a combination of a hardware based H.264 encoder (taking a HDMI out of Vmix) to do that job and then still using Expression Encoder to feed your Windows stuff might be the way to go.

Just a direction worth looking at, I still don't get your big picture. I'm trying to help, but can't quite understand why it had to become a complex beast to get your results.

Australian's don't have to deal with Roku's very much. Although I have one, no one else does you can't buy them here except from Telstra who did some deal and crippled/locked them down to do their own channel lists. Great machines the Roku sad they got Telstra TV branded here and are not open and free like other countries.

So I'm quite ignorant as to what is required for a Roku channel as I can't create one if I wanted to for any Australians to view.
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