logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Maximus  
#1 Posted : Friday, February 2, 2024 4:53:11 AM(UTC)
Maximus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/25/2012(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Barbados

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
Hi,
I am looking for some guidance on remedying NDI drops on a new Laptop. The peculiar thing is it only drops when the source is from a vMix output (1-4). Any other NDI source such as Birddog cameras, Cinergy Playout Software, Kiloview SDI to NDI Converter are all perfect. It is only vMix sources that have a problem. I have ruled out the network as any other computer on the same network and cable works perfectly. I have even tried external USB to ethernet adapters with no luck.
The computer is a Lenovo 13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13900HX with 32Gigs of Ram and a 4080 graphics card running Windows 11 Home.

I have been struggling with this for a few months trying to resolve the problem. I have reinstalled Windows, made sure the Network driver was current, updated graphic drivers etc. I was running vMix26, but have since upgraded to vMix27, no change. The Problem also shows up on Studio Monitor.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Regards
mavik  
#2 Posted : Thursday, February 8, 2024 6:01:19 AM(UTC)
mavik

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/23/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,198
Man
Location: Germany

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 168 time(s) in 150 post(s)
If the problem shows even up on studio monitor this must be a lack of resources. vMix is using full NDI as outputs. They are high bandwidth. Maybe take a look at the network utilization.
pm  
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 8, 2024 6:33:05 AM(UTC)
pm

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 183

Thanks: 10 times
Was thanked: 32 time(s) in 27 post(s)
What's the negotiated speed of the network adapter? Is it 1GBit/s?

What type and chipset is the builtin network adapter?
Maximus  
#4 Posted : Friday, February 9, 2024 10:25:07 PM(UTC)
Maximus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/25/2012(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Barbados

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
If the problem shows even up on studio monitor this must be a lack of resources. vMix is using full NDI as outputs. They are high bandwidth. Maybe take a look at the network utilization.


Hi Mavik,
It is unlikely a lack of resources as the specs of the computer are quite high (see original posts for specs) and this happens with only 1 input to the computer. Using the same network-switch-cable combination on a much lower specked computer the NDI feed has no problem, so it is not a network issue as far as I can tell. Also, non vMix NDI sources (Birddog, Kiloview etc.) work perfectly well, it is only vMix NDI sources that exhibit this issue. The problem exists on any vMix source from any computer on the network, so it is not from 1 source or 1 specific computer. So long as it is a vMix souce the drops are very high. I have tried Birddog Dynamo to view the traffic, and I can see all the drops on the vMix souces while every other NDI source is perfect.

Maxi
Maximus  
#5 Posted : Friday, February 9, 2024 10:29:06 PM(UTC)
Maximus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/25/2012(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Barbados

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
Originally Posted by: pm Go to Quoted Post
What's the negotiated speed of the network adapter? Is it 1GBit/s?

What type and chipset is the builtin network adapter?


Hi, it is a 1Gb adapter and I have also tried a 2.5Gb adapter. The default 1Gb adapter is Realtek chipset. As indicated, it is only with vMix sources that the issue exist. Othjer non vMix NDI sources are perfectly fine.

Maxi
mavik  
#6 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2024 11:36:24 PM(UTC)
mavik

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/23/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,198
Man
Location: Germany

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 168 time(s) in 150 post(s)
Have you tried updating the vMix NDI files manually to the latest available?
bostar  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 10, 2024 7:47:02 PM(UTC)
bostar

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/29/2022(UTC)
Posts: 2
Taiwan, Province Of China
Location: taipei

Sorry to rehash the thread. Did you find a solution for this as I have the same problem. Any NDI source to vMix plays perfectly but if NDI source is from another vMix PC, it starts to stutter.
Maximus  
#8 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2024 1:31:25 PM(UTC)
Maximus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/25/2012(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Barbados

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
Unfortunaey I do not have a resolution to this as yet, but I am continuing to test when time allows. Should I find a solution, I will be sure to update this post

Maxi
mavik  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2024 6:40:06 PM(UTC)
mavik

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/23/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,198
Man
Location: Germany

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 168 time(s) in 150 post(s)
As I said you could try to update the NDI to the latest manually in vMix. If it's vMix to vMix you could try SRT instead and see if the drops are happening there as well.
bostar  
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2024 4:34:56 PM(UTC)
bostar

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/29/2022(UTC)
Posts: 2
Taiwan, Province Of China
Location: taipei

Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
As I said you could try to update the NDI to the latest manually in vMix. If it's vMix to vMix you could try SRT instead and see if the drops are happening there as well.


I have manually updated to the latest NDI in vMix to no avail.
Jamesdtl  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2024 9:11:02 AM(UTC)
Jamesdtl

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/17/2020(UTC)
Posts: 10
United Kingdom
Location: London

Just to jump in to say that I've started to experience this issue recently. No logical reason for it. Only on incoming sources.
Reinaldo  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 31, 2024 4:41:26 AM(UTC)
Reinaldo

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/24/2014(UTC)
Posts: 44
Man
Brazil
Location: Brazil

Thanks: 53 times
Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 3 post(s)
I can use NDI without problem in my network. We have 12 PTZ NDI cameras in network and can work with all of them without drops but cant receive any NDI from another Vmix.
Vmix NDI works good for long time but now it´s a big problem... Vmix Doesn´t work anymore.
Maximus  
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 1, 2024 2:54:09 AM(UTC)
Maximus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/25/2012(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Barbados

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
My experience is that it tied to vMix. If the source is a vMix ouput, I get lots of drops, freezing etc. Any other source on the same network is fine.


Maxi
NiBTour  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 15, 2024 2:58:28 PM(UTC)
NiBTour

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/28/2016(UTC)
Posts: 159
Man
United States
Location: SACRAMENTO

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 19 time(s) in 18 post(s)
I know this is about 3 months old but i'm pretty sure this is due to the Windows scheduler with P and E cores on 13/14 gen processors. A simple way of testing this without having to say change the affinity mask in windows task manager or power script every time is to do it in BIOS. Depending on your MB it can be called Gamer Mode where you turn off E cores during gaming and then set vmix to the gaming list. Some even allow you to hit Scroll Lock to disable e-cores on the fly which is what i have done for a quick fix and when vmix loads the scroll lock button is triggered using a PowerToys and or my keyboard comes with a way to do this as i have many keys remapped but you can do something like this using any tool.

It's (in my opinion) an ugly fix and since this was my first attempt to troubleshoot\fix this issue i haven't really dug deeper into it. I'm still mostly on windows 10 for production and or using xeons for big productions (xeons and large NDI workflows like each other) so i run into this problem (or did) once or twice a quarter where i'm using laptops on small gigs that run the 13gen and windows 11. Disabling E cores (or parking) has no negative effect due to these shows not being all that big. So definitely test it but i'm 90% sure that's the problem you are running into.

Perhaps @admin can shed some light on how the inputs\outputs for NDI within vmix use the cores or if it just lets windows handle them and if they can force the threads to only run on performance cores for those ndi inputs threads to insure they don't get caught up in the windows scheduling madness causing these drops.

-King
thanks 1 user thanked NiBTour for this useful post.
tjbruce17594 on 10/26/2024(UTC)
Maximus  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2024 12:45:46 PM(UTC)
Maximus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/25/2012(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Barbados

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
Thanks for the suggestion. I will test on Thursday and let you know the result. I am being optimistic :-)

Maxi
tjbruce17594  
#16 Posted : Saturday, October 26, 2024 12:46:33 PM(UTC)
tjbruce17594

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 8
Australia
Location: Sydney

Thanks: 3 times
Originally Posted by: NiBTour Go to Quoted Post
I know this is about 3 months old but i'm pretty sure this is due to the Windows scheduler with P and E cores on 13/14 gen processors. A simple way of testing this without having to say change the affinity mask in windows task manager or power script every time is to do it in BIOS. Depending on your MB it can be called Gamer Mode where you turn off E cores during gaming and then set vmix to the gaming list. Some even allow you to hit Scroll Lock to disable e-cores on the fly which is what i have done for a quick fix and when vmix loads the scroll lock button is triggered using a PowerToys and or my keyboard comes with a way to do this as i have many keys remapped but you can do something like this using any tool.

It's (in my opinion) an ugly fix and since this was my first attempt to troubleshoot\fix this issue i haven't really dug deeper into it. I'm still mostly on windows 10 for production and or using xeons for big productions (xeons and large NDI workflows like each other) so i run into this problem (or did) once or twice a quarter where i'm using laptops on small gigs that run the 13gen and windows 11. Disabling E cores (or parking) has no negative effect due to these shows not being all that big. So definitely test it but i'm 90% sure that's the problem you are running into.

Perhaps @admin can shed some light on how the inputs\outputs for NDI within vmix use the cores or if it just lets windows handle them and if they can force the threads to only run on performance cores for those ndi inputs threads to insure they don't get caught up in the windows scheduling madness causing these drops.

-King



So I tried lowering the CPU affinty in Task Manager in vmix to just Cores 0 to 12 and it looks like this has fixed the issue.

My NDI output from Vmix 1 isn't lagging in Vmix 2 as an NDI input.

Do you know if there isna way to resolve this in an ASUS bios? I have the performance profile set to Intel Default but not sure about this Gamer Mode in bios.
tjbruce17594  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2024 8:37:47 AM(UTC)
tjbruce17594

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 8
Australia
Location: Sydney

Thanks: 3 times
Quick update on this, looks like it wasn't a CPU issue, it was an NDI issue on the network.

I have resolved this via enabling Multicast in the NDI tools access manager and it seems to be working now.
mavik  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:36:19 AM(UTC)
mavik

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/23/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,198
Man
Location: Germany

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 168 time(s) in 150 post(s)
The unicast multicast is more indicative to a network overload or switch issue in my perspective. NDI can be very bandwidth hungry and with a few streams you can exaggerate a 1G Nic.
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.