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Group/Flatten Layers for Easier Cropping - aka "Fixing the Crop Problem in vMix"
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MarkNF82  
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:22:16 AM(UTC)
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Hello,

On some productions we have to take score from a scoreboard camera then manipulate the data to overlay on our graphics. Most of the time it is not possible to get a direct shot of the scoreboard so we need to rotate and skew the image to straighten the data on screen. Currently when cropping, it follows the angle of the original image (as seen in the first image). It also does this even if the rotated image is placed into a new blank shot, or a virtual input is created.

vmix_crop.jpg (268kb) downloaded 0 time(s).


Cropping also has issues when trying to crop inputs made from multiple layers, as seen in this video from Tom Sinclair of Eastern Shore Broadcasting:

Fixing the Crop Problem in vMix


It was found that layers are only flattened if used in a secondary mix or as an NDI output, then brought back in as an NDI input, then it can be manipulated as one. As we have a vMix HD licence, none of these options were available to us so we looked elsewhere and found the solution in OBS.

OBS has a feature that will let you group or "flatten" the layers so that the input/scene can me manipulated as one. This lets us rotate the original image, group it, then crop the image to clean up the non-level borders and send it via NDI into vMix.


obs_crop.jpg (235kb) downloaded 2 time(s).


-=-=-

I would like to see this feature added to vMix (at all software levels). Seeing this could be done so easily in FREE software was very surprising. After watching Tom Sinclair's video, it is either not possible (vMix HD) or very easy to group/flatten layers of an input to manipulate it as one complete input. It would be much more useful to have a virtual input or creating a new blank input flatten the layers to accomplish this task.

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thanks 3 users thanked MarkNF82 for this useful post.
RutgerPFL on 3/5/2022(UTC), thickrichard on 3/5/2022(UTC), davidelsbury on 3/6/2022(UTC)

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IEBAcom  
#2 Posted : Saturday, March 5, 2022 3:41:35 AM(UTC)
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THis is absolutely the current problem I have the most in vMix.

There is NO reason I can fathom whrre if I have an input, let's say a background, and then a camera greenscreen removed, and then the speaker's title over them. I can see no reason why if I bring this as a layer into something else that cropping it only crops the BASE layer (which might very well be a "transparent Color input" meaning that the layer crop crops NOTHING.

Or why woudl I only want to crop the base layer of th ebackground to fit in a PIP but then the greenscreen person can reach outside the box? W. T. F is that shit?

No, ANY input brought into another as a layer must ABSOLUTELY be flattened to one layer.

Man reaching across PIP borders.
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thanks 3 users thanked IEBAcom for this useful post.
thickrichard on 3/5/2022(UTC), davidelsbury on 3/6/2022(UTC), Stefan_Com-unity.tv on 3/10/2022(UTC)
thickrichard  
#3 Posted : Saturday, March 5, 2022 7:49:58 AM(UTC)
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alexjacobs  
#4 Posted : Saturday, March 5, 2022 7:55:27 AM(UTC)
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Soulhome  
#5 Posted : Saturday, March 5, 2022 8:04:47 AM(UTC)
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Sure, I can use mix inputs for this but there are only three.
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timcorbin  
#6 Posted : Saturday, March 5, 2022 11:19:04 PM(UTC)
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davidelsbury  
#7 Posted : Sunday, March 6, 2022 9:57:08 AM(UTC)
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richardgatarski  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 8, 2022 10:39:30 PM(UTC)
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+1
I might add a suggested way of implementation - an option "Flatten before use" when specifying a Layer source.

We have been struggling with various workarounds for this problem for many many years. Recently when Mix Inputs appeared they turned out as one fix. Unfortunately there are only three Mix Inputs, and it is an awkward solution for the problem at hand.

Of course we in this topic are not the only ones who want to flatten things out ;) A quick search revealed some related topics that discuss this problem, although I did not find any real Feature Requests. (I could swear that there are some, hard to find them though).

https://forums.vmix.com/...8392-Invisible-MultiView
https://forums.vmix.com/...ew---Fit-source-to-frame
https://forums.vmix.com/...-Bug-or-known-limitation
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Stefan_Com-unity.tv  
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 10, 2022 1:40:36 PM(UTC)
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WaltG12  
#10 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2022 12:34:43 PM(UTC)
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+1, for the same reasons noted by richardgatarski.

Originally Posted by: MarkNF82 Go to Quoted Post
Seeing this could be done so easily in FREE software was very surprising.


There are a number of things that can be done in OBS that can't be done in vMix. It's really not that surprising.

For most of them, I simply use OBS and bring it into vMix via NDI or the Virtual Cam plugin.

This, however, isn't one of them--as you acknowledge, Mix inputs solve this problem, but merely are not available in the tier you've selected.

I understand the frustration. I didn't love the idea of shelling out another $350 (doubling the purchase price) to get vMix 4K for a production done entirely in 1080p. But that's what I had to do to get the features I wanted/needed, so that's what I did.

As your issue seems to be, not that a solution is unavailable, but that the solution is locked behind the paywall of tiers you don't have, I wouldn't hold my breath for this anytime soon (if ever).

If they do add this feature, since, like richardgatarski noted, using a Mix input for this can be a bit clunky, since it's doing the same processing & solving the same problem, I wouldn't be surprised if it's behind the same "4K and up" requirement as the Mix inputs or the Output input. I also wouldn't be surprised if, for processing reasons, using it still constituted using a Mix input, albeit in a more direct/streamlined manner.
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engelschall  
#11 Posted : Saturday, June 18, 2022 8:51:39 PM(UTC)
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+1, the missing of a "flatten" feature is really one of the most frustrating things in vMix.
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spinfold  
#12 Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2022 1:47:14 AM(UTC)
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+1.

My use case is that we would like multiple sources (vCall, Teams laptop via NDI, Zoom laptop via NDI, camera, etc) and multiple "master" individual person inputs, as we don't necessarily know who is going to appear on what source.

With the individual inputs (Bob, Jane, etc) we can then toggle layer 1 on those to "assign" Bob to vCall4 and Jane to Camera 2, for example. All good so far.

Where it then fails is that while I can use those "individual people" inputs to build other inputs with layers, for example a 2 box input showing Jane and Bob side by side, and have their picture change as I assign different sources, AND I can resize and move them in the layer to build the boxes, I CAN'T crop them as only the main input crops and not the layers on top.

Currently we are achieving this by building boxes which then have the source changed as well as layering on top of an "individual person" input - two steps instead of 1, more programming, more testing and more checking on air.
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engelschall  
#13 Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2022 2:38:32 AM(UTC)
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There are currently two workaround to solve those problems by "simulating" the missing flatten feature: (1) you can use a Mix input as an intermediate input, as it implicitly flattens its sources, or (2) you can use a VirtualSet input with a 1:1 UVMap (see vMix-VirtualSet-Flatten in my https://github.com/rse/vmix-assets/ project), as this UVMap also implicitly flattens the sources.
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Bonbondotkom  
#14 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2022 4:12:24 PM(UTC)
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mikeknight  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2022 1:25:28 AM(UTC)
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One of the biggest issues we face with vMix. We need to be able to compose a shot and then manipulate it as a single video layer.
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Peter Berglund  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 9, 2022 2:30:17 AM(UTC)
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muehlym  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, March 1, 2023 7:42:59 PM(UTC)
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Sebastian.onvista  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 8, 2023 12:38:11 AM(UTC)
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mavik  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, March 8, 2023 1:55:03 AM(UTC)
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richardgatarski  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, March 8, 2023 8:32:09 PM(UTC)
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Regarding the various workarounds that have been suggested in this topic, including in it´s first post.

A year ago, when I added my positive vote, I wrote "when Mix Inputs appeared they turned out as one fix. Unfortunately there are only three Mix Inputs, and it is an awkward solution for the problem at hand."

I now would like to add that in spite of the increased number of Mix Inputs introduced with v26, it is still an awkward workaround. And it typically is not possible to use for us since Mix Inputs are sometimes only possible to refer to by Mix number only in Shortcuts and the API. Imagine having 7 Mix Inputs and deleting number 3. Then Mix 4,5, and 6 suddenly becomes 3,4, and 5. Shoot...
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