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mitsakos156  
#1 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 4:48:09 PM(UTC)
mitsakos156

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Hello Vmix community, once again i wanna ask for opinions and suggestions. I am given the tast to livestream a 3day trackday event that takes place in Serres racing circuit Greece.
I know almost everthing i need about the vmix app, i manage well with it.

The main video inputs will be go pro camera's that will be on different cars. several of them. the problem is how to connect them to my pc.

FACTS : there is no stable or reliable internet connection to the track.
Therefore i have to get a plan with high speed mobile data. i calculated that i will need about ~10gb of data to stream 3 days at 720p to facebook ( cant stream 1080p for some reason).
Streaming hours will be 10:00-18:00. So my desktop will be wireless connected to my mobile data device to the internet.

Problem number one : the track is wide so i guess i have to buy a huge wifi antenna so all go pro's can connect to another wifi spot that i will create.
i was thinking something like this? WIFI HUGE ANTENNA
So lets say all cameras are connected to a wifi spot. My place will be at the red mark. I will propably connect that wifi spot to my pc via ethernet.

Problem number two : how will i connect the cameras with vmix? NDI? Does the go pro's have ip camera or something?
I have about 340 days before the next trackday so i have plenty of time to search the solution.
Please if u can help me sort this out it would be really awesome.
UserPostedImage
DWAM  
#2 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 5:12:34 PM(UTC)
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Hi

very interesting project but I think it is much more complicated than you expect.

First I would go for a satellite connection to the internet. Cellular is always very risky in crowded events.

Second, I don't think Wifi is an option for such projects, because of bandwidth requirements for video signals and mainly distance limitations. You need professional broadcast wireless transmitters/receivers.

This type of project needs very high production budget.

Guillaume
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 5:15:20 PM(UTC)
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And I forgot to mention the power supply requirements for the vehicles video equipments. You cannot stop a car in the middle of a race to change the battery in your GoPro or the wireless transmitter...
dark_ata  
#4 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 5:17:06 PM(UTC)
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you should start with how many cams and the budget. and it not to easy and cheap, gopro direct via wifi is non-viable
mitsakos156  
#5 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 5:20:29 PM(UTC)
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Powersupply isnt an issue. Its not a race event, its slighlty different. each driver competes with his own time(mostly personal time attack event) there wont be a start and a finish. i can go in do 10 laps and go out for 10-30mins-2hours then get back in.
The amount of cameras isn't standard. In cooperation with the club, most drivers have their own go pro ( or whatever else brand action cam they have ).

Sattelite connection isnt an option in Greece. No provider does that with a good amount of upload speed. They are really slow.

Could u point me out for the proffesional wifi transmiter?
I just checked that the one i posted from amazon, its range is only 183 meters long. In my pic the longest part of the track from my supposed position is 500meters away.


THANKS for ur super quick replies.
DWAM  
#6 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 5:55:36 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
Powersupply isnt an issue.

I doubt that.

Quote:
most drivers have their own go pro

Cameras is not the problem here. Transmitters are the problem. Also the time required to equip each vehicle. Even professional races with huge budgets for television broadcast cannot equip all vehicles.
Using drivers gopros is a bad idea because not all GoPro are born equal (they don't all have the same specs).

Quote:
Sattelite connection isnt an option in Greece.

Eutelsat does that. Once again this is professional solution, at least 4/6000 euros for 3 days depending on data volume

Quote:
Could u point me out for the proffesional wifi transmiter?

I'm not talking about Wifi... Wifi is unable to do this. Do not use the term "Wifi" for such things.

Professional wireless solutions for broadcast cost a lot of money. In general it is not even possible to buy them. I once used 1 single transmitter/receiver pack, the rental was 1200 euro for a single day. This model was limited to 300m. And it was not usable for what you want to do because you need miniaturized models which are even more expensive.

I don't know any rental company in Greece but there is obviously one or two. You got to contact television channels to ask.

In France, I can rent such equipments here : http://www.lasolutionrf.com
This is the company which provides wireless solutions to all TV channels for sports broadcasts like Tour de France, Marathons, racing events, etc...

I told you, this project requires a lot of budget, I mean it. This cannot done with amateur means.
It's easy to have a GoPro in a car for post-production, but use it in realtime is another challenge. Only worldwide championships like Formula 1 or MotoGP do it, there's a reason for this...


Maximus  
#7 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 6:26:07 PM(UTC)
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I would like to backup DWAN on his input. Wifi is not an option and Production cost for this will be very high, assuming you want professional results . You have time to do the research, but this is not really a vMix challenge, rather it is a Production challenge.

Maxi
NiBTour  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 3:44:39 AM(UTC)
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Well, i'm not going to tell you it can't be done or it's going to cost too much because well, that doesn't solve anything. I can tell you the distance isn't that big of a deal if you create hybrid intranet access points coupled with bonding cellular carriers (multiple) and using directional point to points. I've done this with buildings over miles and miles. That coupled with
https://teradek.com/coll...ons/beam-family#overview

Beam's and the Bond solution you might be able to do something. As for the GoPro
's unless their the special broadcast versions your not going to get any live output on the majority of them soi would regulate that immediately and get action cams that do like Marshalls or Sony Action Cams but even then you'll need them going into a cube or some type of low latency transceiver to send to your access points. If this is going to be a permanent thing then i suggest fiber runs to command central or your NOC and also have broadcast vans on the corners. The Beam II's i think are pretty good up to 700 meters but when i used them we only needed them up to 200m so not sure how they perform beyond that.

you have a massive project and possibly over 100K euros or plus project on your hands. definitely, keep us updated but contact Teradek and again like the guys said this has nothing to do with vMix but more of your workflow and how your going to execute this awesome project of yours :)

good luck man :)

-King
mitsakos156  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 3:47:46 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for ur reply. My main concern is how to connect these go pro's to vmix.. i know the project has to do mainly with the broadcast setup.
And i am searching step by step to find solutions.
NiBTour  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 3:53:51 AM(UTC)
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mitsakos156 wrote:
Thanks for ur reply. My main concern is how to connect these go pro's to vmix.. i know the project has to do mainly with the broadcast setup.
And i am searching step by step to find solutions.



GoPro's aren't designed for live broadcasting and the ones that are are specially made and part of their broadcast series not the ones you see at the store. the ones that do have clean hdmi out i belive ethe 3's or maybe the 4's you still need encoders to capture and bring into your computers. what gopro's are they using?

-King
DWAM  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 3:57:57 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
you have a massive project and possibly over 100K euros or plus project on your hands.


Yes this is also what I estimated for this project.
Ittaidv  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:53:39 AM(UTC)
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If resolution can be low: take a look at those cheap sd cams with transmitters for drone fpv on shops like hobbyking or aliexpress. They operate on 5.8ghz and can send to multiple rx so you can always connect to the best signal. Some of them can travel many kilometers without any problems. Best is to check drone forums and ask questions there. Just an idea..

Its not going to be the best image (700tvl) but might be better than a disconnecting/stuttering signal.
Kelvin  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 3:07:56 PM(UTC)
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The Amimon Connex line of drone HD transmitters may work for you. I know you can use several of them in the same proximity and they have transmission distances of up to 1100m. I have used them successfully to do live video (no audio) from a boat to shore when webcasting waterski tournaments. They run about $1600 USD for each transmitter/receiver combo.
Ittaidv  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:15:14 PM(UTC)
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I also have the connex, and i'm happy with it. I'm pretty sure it won't work on a track like this though. Especially when you would be using more than 1 unit simultaniously, it will for sure disconnect all the time.
dark_ata  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:46:54 PM(UTC)
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With wifi, money, time and some seconds of delay if you are IT it is possible. I think that is it possible with 1-2k per car.

We have one connex and for us is very bad, we are very happy with another rx/tx cost 2-3x but work really well better than a bolt 2000. But this could be a good option but is not cheap.

How you have time you can wait for freecast, this could be the best option prices/quality
mitsakos156  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, March 29, 2017 2:32:18 AM(UTC)
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the point was to make use of people's go pro's... almost everyone has one of these cameras in his car or on the exterior.
Renting or buying other cameras is not an option. For the equipment i am still looking for it.

The main issue here that needs to be solved is how do i connect live go pros to vmix.. is there a capture device that does mini hdmi > wifi?
petre  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, March 29, 2017 4:42:04 AM(UTC)
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try smartphone with webrtc,vmixcall...
Ittaidv  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 29, 2017 2:08:07 PM(UTC)
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mitsakos156 wrote:
the point was to make use of people's go pro's... almost everyone has one of these cameras in his car or on the exterior.
Renting or buying other cameras is not an option. For the equipment i am still looking for it.

The main issue here that needs to be solved is how do i connect live go pros to vmix.. is there a capture device that does mini hdmi > wifi?



I think you will spend more in trying to get a reliable feed from the gopro's, compared to buying new cheaper cams that do connect reliably with an sd stream. Whatever 'cheap' wifi solution you will try, you will never have an acceptable delay in your production from those cameras, and lots of frustration, trying to connect to their cameras.

If you go with hobbyking cams, you might spend like 200$ per camera + reciever. I'm sure there is no wireless solution even near this pricepoint. Except if you are really smart and diy something with groundbreaking technology :)
thepelell  
#19 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 4:05:26 AM(UTC)
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I have been streaming car racing since 2013, and i still haven't found an affordable and reliable solution for onboard footage.
If you want to spend little and you have 4g coverage, a smartphone with webrtc or vmixcall is your simplest solution. Next weekend I am going to use that solution. But i will be using it one car at a a time.
FORGET NORMAL 2.4G WIFI... it WILL NOT WORK, trust me, I have been there and done that.. after 2 disaster races I contacted a professional company and got professional 5.8 directional point to point radios. Gopro's have very limited wifi range and slow fps anyway. You would need to get hdmi out of gopro and go to a h264 encoder that streams rtsp (least expensive is 300$). Then connect this encoder to a 5.8ghz Client radio possibly with antenna mounted on car roof. At the base station you need to put at least 2 panel antennas in opposite directions.. big omni antennas are useless.. been there, done it... And then you still wont be able to reliably get the streams from more than 2 cars, because you will start to have bandwidth problems.. wifi really is not suited for video streams, we are stretching the limits a lot. If you look in the "Showcase" subforum you will see my post with an example of my last Car race in Italy with 9 cams, all connected wireless around the track, I don't want to sound arrogant but I have certain experience.

But there could be some hope.. I have been testing this system all winter but haven't had a chance to test in a real scenario yet. It is called EZ-Wifi Broadcast , and uses raspberry PI as encoder with its optionl camera (which isn't very good, but for 30$ you can't complain, and for onboard footage it is ok). It was born for drone fpv usage, but it's the same thing to apply it on a car. For 1 car you would need 1 raspberry tx, 1 USB wifi dongle for TX, 1 Raspberry camera for TX, 1 raspberry for RX and at least 2 usb wifi dongles for rx (and panel or patch antennas for rx) . Total cost for 1 tx-rx setup is around 150$ , and you receive an HDMI 720p60 or 1080p30 image that you then need to get in you vmixpc with a capture card or usb dongle.
Read the very long thread at the rcgroups forum:
https://www.rcgroups.com...ransmission-made-easy%21
DWAM  
#20 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 4:29:49 AM(UTC)
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@thepelell

Talking about RPI and embedded solutions, check this
http://www.streamrus.com/en/index.php

Spanish company, easy to talk with...
thanks 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
thepelell on 3/31/2017(UTC)
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