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Would like for support for Livestream streaming service,
Hockey League went with Livestream and unfortunately it doesn't
support vMix integration very good.
Livestream only has 25 inputs, no ndi and media files have to be transcoded
before using in production for $799 US for software, when we could have vMix
with 1000 inputs and no transcoding.
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Livestream have made the choice to prevent encoders such as vMix from working with their service.
So I would suggest all Livestream customers regularly request they enabled support, as it is really up to them!
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Just use the Virtual Vmix Output and stream it via the free Livestream Producer application or send a physical Vmix output via SDI or HDMI to another of your inputs and do the same thing (if the virtual input doesn't work)
This way you can mix and produce your show with Vmix and stream it to Livestream.com
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Livestream Producer seems to quite CPU heavy. I have a client that wants to use Livestream, and buy their top package. I will be asking him to request vMix support.
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admin wrote:Livestream have made the choice to prevent encoders such as vMix from working with their service.
So I would suggest all Livestream customers regularly request they enabled support, as it is really up to them!
Thanks Martin, kinda figure that. Don't know unless you ask...
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Rinsky wrote:Just use the Virtual Vmix Output and stream it via the free Livestream Producer application or send a physical Vmix output via SDI or HDMI to another of your inputs and do the same thing (if the virtual input doesn't work)
This way you can mix and produce your show with Vmix and stream it to Livestream.com Unfortunately Livestream Producer doesn't have the features required by the league... and the team does not want to spend money on Livestream Studio $799 US. and free version only supports 2 cameras.. NO NDI, and all media has to be transcoded before used in production... Sorry but Livestream Software sucks, vMix Rocks!!!!!
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As I already told you: Use the Livestream Producer just for streaming, mixing should be done with Vmix.
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@ desmar
What was the league's reasoning for choosing Livestream?
I was an early beta tester of sorts way back when it was "Mogulus" but never really got things to work well enough for me to pursue and slowly lost interest over time as they brought more and more "proprietary" practices and costly bandwidth usage into their way of doing things.
Now that I am completely out of the loop, I question whether they have the same policy towards BMD's ATEM or NewTek's line of TriCasters or even Wirecast users?
Seems rather foolish to me to operate a frontline CDN but exclude such a large segment of potential content producers as customers...
Such a waste to have to funnel everything through "Livestream Producer" just to access their network, (I guess that's why I've shied away from using them).
Just my thoughts.
Ice
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Rinsky wrote:As I already told you: Use the Livestream Producer just for streaming, mixing should be done with Vmix. League has mandated us to use Livestream Studio, I have no say in it. And Livestream Studio does not work with vMix...
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IceStream wrote:@ desmar
What was the league's reasoning for choosing Livestream?
I was an early beta tester of sorts way back when it was "Mogulus" but never really got things to work well enough for me to pursue and slowly lost interest over time as they brought more and more "proprietary" practices and costly bandwidth usage into their way of doing things.
Now that I am completely out of the loop, I question whether they have the same policy towards BMD's ATEM or NewTek's line of TriCasters or even Wirecast users?
Seems rather foolish to me to operate a frontline CDN but exclude such a large segment of potential content producers as customers...
Such a waste to have to funnel everything through "Livestream Producer" just to access their network, (I guess that's why I've shied away from using them).
Just my thoughts.
Ice @Ice I have no clue why they went in that direction, they originally where going with fasthockey which gives them $1 per game, then pointstreak which takes a 50% profit sharing of streams. It is a pay per games or season pass they want to set up, with geo blocking feature so local fans have to attend games to see product and archiving of all games and vod system, so that is probably why they went with Livestream... and wanted a simple end to end solution for each team to implement...
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Can't the league still have all of its backend requirements, but allow you as the streamer to use vMix and the free Livestream Producer application. I'm not sure there are really any differences once the stream reached the CDN. I have been using this setup for several years. For a streamer with a limited budget, their lowest tier service is quite economical and doesn't charge based on bandwidth. For a 10 hour/day event with over 500 viewers, the CDN's that charge for bandwidth would make my productions cost prohibitive.
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Both free versions of Livestream Producer and Livestream Studio do not support recording, NDI,
I have 12 ip cameras (some PTZ) and 2 video cameras.. and NDI for visiting Press and tv around venue.
Also Livestream Studio does not support vMix.
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I have been using all the capabilities of vMix with Livestream for several years using the method described in this Knowledgebase Link.
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Kelvin wrote:I have been using all the capabilities of vMix with Livestream for several years using the method described in this Knowledgebase Link. @Kelvin Going to say it one more time, it's quite obvious you don't read all the post I have been posting. Livestream Producer is NOT AN OPTION for us... and Livestream Studio does not support vMix as stated by Martin and in my earlier post..
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@ desmar Can you elaborate further on how it is "NOT AN OPTION" for you? I'm not sure I fully understand... I've looked into this a little further and found out that Livestream does indeed support the ATEM and newer versions of Tricasters with plug-ins (to answer my earlier question) but it also recommends Kelvin's and Rinsky's suggested method above for owners of older Tricasters that are not supported by the plug-ins: https://help.livestream....dio-Recommended-WorkflowIs the league really able to discern whether you are using Producer or Studio versions of the software? Either way, if the league is "forcing" you to use Livestream Studio, the same option that Kelvin suggests should still be applicable, that is, produce with vMix and feed a second computer for Streaming with Livestream Studio via SDI or HDMI from vMix's External Renderer as a camera input. A more costly method than being able to stream directly from vMix for sure, but certainly possible and obviously being done by others. There's always a solution or workaround to be found if you look hard enough, even though it might not be the easiest or most cost effective way to do it, but sometimes you just 'gotta do what you gotta do' to get the job done. Ice
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Livestream Producer does not support recording, free version of Livestream Studio does not support recording either.
All overlays are done by league in Livestream Studio, they want all teams to have same look and feel across the board..
need to record final output from Livestream Studio with overlays and without overlays.
Livestream Studio needs to transcode all media before being able to view videos in streams, no ndi support, I have 12 ip cameras
(some PTZ) and 2 video cameras.. and NDI for visiting Press and tv around venue for final output with overlays.
Also Livestream Studio does not support vMix, tried, only options for camera input are (none, Intensity Pro 4K, Screen 1, GFX 1, Media 1, Remote Camera 1, RTMP 1, Colors/Bars 1, Colors/Bars 2) no selections for vMix, external renderer does not work. tried every option including rtmp and vMix craps out telling me it cannot connect to rtmp server built in to Livestream Studio....
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Perhaps make a cheap 'livestreaming pc' with just a capture card? This way you don't tax the cpu of your vmix pc too much, and you're sure you can use a capture card as input.
I don't get it, why livestream.com is so popular. Their hardware is overpriced and crappy, and their cdn and website are totally not userfriendly. They must have a good sales team..
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@ desmar
Maddening for sure, but I get it, sometimes those executive decisions are made as a compromise and/or means of providing a "goof proof" solution that everyone is able to achieve regardless of how ill-informed the executive might be, because lets face it, getting 12 owners/businessmen to come to a consensus on anything is next to impossible, and Livestream certainly has pretty good curb appeal for those not in the know...
I am not at all familiar with Livestream Studio and it's graphics system, but if I understand you correctly, the league graphics cannot be used with vMix, only Livestream?
And Livestream Studio wont accept the vMix feed as an HDMI input on the Intensity Pro 4K?
Both scenarios don't quite seem right to me, there must be a way to work around this.
And what about those teams that may have a Tricaster or ATEM?
Have you explored the ATEM workflow to use with Livestream (vMix->ATEM->Livestream)?
Ice
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@IceStream
The owner does not want to pay for any hardware or Livestream Studio, only wants me to use free version..
I am supplying all hardware and software. And I do not have the money to spend in a second computer just to run
Livestream Studio and hardware as I am on a pension.
"All overlays are done by league in Livestream Studio, they want all teams to have same look and feel across the board.."
Overlays in same location on screen, Scoreboard, advertising, logo's etc..
This is a new Junior kids team with very little to no budget, money raised by streaming will help pay for players equipment.
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@ desmar
I completely understand, I've faced similar budgetary issues with the Men's Senior league, but the bottom line is, if it's a league decision to go in this direction, then the team will have to comply by purchasing the necessary hardware and software to get the job done.
If you have indicated what you are able to do with your equipment and the league and/or team is not able to accommodate you, then you should not be held responsible for the costs involved (unless of course this is a paid gig whereby you should be charging accordingly, but I suspect not).
What are the other teams doing to comply?
Certainly in my experience, teams and owners will only do the bare minimum to comply with league sanctioned decisions and sometimes not even that if there are no consequences to non-compliance. If there were good money to be made through live streaming video coverage, the owners would have been all over it years ago, but the reality is, they rarely see it as a long term marketing tool that needs to be done properly and justifiably expensed, but rather typically see it as an unnecessary cost if they can't make money from it. They will gladly get an enthusiastic geeky volunteer to do this stuff for free if they can or rely on the local cable station for coverage but are very reluctant to invest in or pay for the proper equipment or services to do the job right. Many might have bought into the promises of the sales teams at FastHockey or Poinstreak but the fact that the league is now turning to Livestream should be a prime indicator that those promises never materialized sufficiently.
I feel your pain and hope that you are able to find some sort of workaround, but you may have to just back out as I have had to do with the Senior league...
Ice
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