Hello,

after some test with the trail version, the "Live"-Button needs only a new function as Button and not Toggelbutton with the function (PlayRecordReplay, SetSpeed100, SetCurrentRecordPosition). So the replay chanel is at the current live position and with a JumpFrame command the playback stops and you can mark an IN and OUT point and with live button you can switch back to live.

Regards
Thomas

Hi everybody,

as talked on this post I just want to quote a bit of Thomas ideas on how the vmix replay system should react/interact:

1. "auto disable live mode" -> disable automatic the live mode if you go one frame back (by jog), scratch in the timeline or selecting a event.
Absolutely, that´s the way, nothing else! Together with your second post, if you hit the live button you are at live position in your recording, so it´s like E/E mode in old VTR world

2. if you have marked a event in the list, reset the IN and OUT point by using the in and out button.
On EVS it´s once you load a clip (it´s how they call an event), you are automatically at the In-point and can just job back or for and hit "Mark In" again in order to set this new In-point. The "Mark Out" button has a shift function (same with the "Mark In"), so press Shift+Out jumps directly to the out point, jog back or for and set your new Out-point. So I think you don´t really need to delete an In/Out at all, you just want to set a new one.

3. independent operating at chanel A,B and A+B like the NewTek 3Play
Already mentioned the more common PGM/PVW mode: Standard is you control both outputs, jog to a good In-point for your replay, press "PVW" button, the PGM stays at your In-point waiting for your lever to start that replay - while you can jog with your PVW channel to a different angle or position on your recording. If you want to play your PGM replay just move the lever (T-bar), and if you´re finished press "Take" and your PVW replay switches/fades/wipes (changeable in Settings on the EVS) to the PGM output. And you´re still in PVW so you can easily cue up the next replay while PGM output is still playing out your second replay clip.

4. if you enable the live mode display the selected camera at the selected output.
Yep, same as under 1., it´s like E/E mode

5. Events with undefined out point, so that the operator of the vision mixer can cut. (if you use the vMix as replay system only)
Yep, same here, no need for any In or Out point, just roll back to where you want to be, drag your T-bar and start replaying as long as you wish to

6. manual sorted event list (not sorted by time code) or sorted event list with seperat clip list for replay (like 3Play, sorry ;) )
Yep, same here, sort your clips like you want to. There should really be single clips AND playlist which contains clips, in the order you put them in your playlist. So you could easily just cue a clip (which might not even be part of any playlist).

On thing your the jog wheel, it should work as smooth as possible, by changing the speed you turn the job the faster you scrub through your recording. If you really want to go fast - on EVS you have a button called "Fast Job" which is X times faster than normal job speed. And there´s an easy "Go to TC" where you enter the timecode and your playhead jumps to that position. Easy if somebody shout "Second goal was at around 7:30pm" Hopefully not 7:30am, that´s not the time I like to work.... :-)

Hope that helps to bring light into that....

Cheers

Jens

Hi Jens,

I think I need to explain why vMix works the way it does in the hope that there can be some suggestions
that improve upon that.
The reason things work differently to an EVS is

a) a live production system is part of the same interface and
b) it's a software based system, so there are resource constraints that I need to work with.

I will explain in a bit of detail below in the hope that you guys can offer suggestions to improve
the way things work step by step, rather than a complete overhaul to exactly match the EVS workflow.

Live/Recorded modes

vMix is actually in both of these modes simultaneously at all times! The Live button at the top determines how some buttons
and shortcuts react, but the timeline is always in recorded mode.

It is also not possible to move the timeline permanently to live, as the replay recorder is delayed for performance reasons.
So the most recent frame might be up to a second delayed, plus running replay constantly in this mode will result in constant CPU usage.

So instead, the Preview Monitors were added, which show the actual live camera sources in live mode and the timeline position when in recorded mode.

I hope this makes sense as it explains why "auto disable live mode" would be limiting, as vMix can actually do both at the same time.
You can have buttons making mark in and mark out Live even while in the middle of editing previous clips!

Question: do you want an option to show the live cameras in the input windows in vMix itself as well?
Personally I think this duplicates what can already be seen in the actual camera inputs, but if a lot of people want it that is a relatively simple addition.

Mark In / Mark Out editing

Is the ability to use Mark In / Out to edit the selected event something most of you guys would like to see?
Keep in mind there are already shortcuts called ReplayMoveSelectedxPoint which can be used to add or subtract seconds from the selected event.
http://www.vmixhd.com/re...p/ShortcutReference.html

Independent A+B

For performance and simplicity, this is not currently something we are looking into. For these sorts of scenarios a dedicated replay system is probably the way to go.

Undefined Playback

In vMix, transition to the replay inputs through Quick Play, Cut or any transition effect and it will play continuously from that point onwards without ending.
The in and out points are only used when selecting an event for playback.

Fast Jog

On the ShuttlePRO the button at the bottom left increases the speed of the shuttle wheel substantially and works like the Fast Job button.
http://www.vmixhd.com/re...help/ControlOptions.html

I hope some of this explains the design decisions that have been made and I am willing to work with customers to determine how to offer the best of both worlds.

Regards,

Martin
vMix

Hi Martin,

I absolutely understand your explanations, it´s a very cool software you made, and currently it´s the way it works.
And the technical stuff behind - specially for replay - is not easy to handle.

I just want to give your programm a bit of the nuts and bolts every standard replay operator would need. And I know that´s nothing we change in a minute.

For sure vmix does record and play at the same time, the point was interesting to hear from you that you have at least a buffer of 1 second from live which you need to write and re-read that portion of a recording (it´s called record train in EVS world).

As long this can´t be changed/improved by caching in RAM or changing the chunk size - it´s o.k. to have that limit once we figure out how to deal with it.

Playing back at this near-to-live position is too CPU heavy like you said, so let´s think different for the moment:
If we have 4 windows for our live input, and 4 windows for our replay channels - if I hit the "Live" button you simply show the actual live inputs on both windows (everything in the undocked replay window so the operator does not need to watch on 2 monitors).
I know it´s there already (in a slightly different aproach), but you would need the starting point for your jog/shuttle back always at the live point, that´s why it´s not usefull to first move to the end of your recording (the current replay windows just stays where you last positioned your playhead, no relation to your actual live pictures) and start searching backwards from there.
Once I touch the jog (personally I don´t want to use a mouse at the end if we can finish the "Pro Controller"...), the live windows still continuing with the inputs, the other 4 window may just pause until you´re ready to go with jog/shuttle through your record train. It may sound weird, but pausing/freezing the actual picture at the point where I touch the jog wheel is much, much better than suddenly jumping back for say 1 second (as this would at that time the first useable frame of the record train) - the operator will get nervous as the picture is somewhere but not at the point he wishes to start from. Believe it or not, even if it´s just a second, your eyes watch a scene, want´s to pause and rewind, but the picture jumps back in the action and you can get lost "Who am I" very easy.

Moving Mark In/Out points, yeah it´s better not to move them (specially not in steps like say seconds or so), you jog/shuttle to your new desired points anyway, and then you need to have the function to use that as the new Mark In/Out.

Undefined Playback, one add on to that: Often enough you mark a clip, but there´s no time to play the replay know. Maybe 2 minutes later the vision mixer asks for that particular replay, you recall that clip but you need more frames after your outpoint as the vision mixer wants to show more of the action as you first decided to clip. So on the EVS I alway recall a clip which set´s me to the Mark In point, then hit a function called "Shift+Return" which brings me directly to the original point in the full record train, so I can start my replay without worrying about an out point.

So far for the moment, have to get to work, no slowmotions today... :-)

By the way, I´ll no acces on a vmix system for the next couple of days, being on a different job in Switzerland. So sadly not really a chance for me to make some screenshots and suggestions how we could handle the UI.

Cheers

Jens

I made some tests withe the new Vmix 16 preview Version.

I was using a i7 3770k CPU and a Geforce GTX 760.

When recording 4 replay channels (1080i50) at the same time, I had around 50% CPU usage while in Live mode and about 70% CPU usage when playing in recorded mode.

GPU load was always about 30%.

I was really impressed that the delay between the last frame of the recorded footage to the live input was that short, I really wouln't mind if that was the feed for creating replays.

I also have a i7 4930k, which would reduce the CPU usage while playing the video in recorded mode to about 50% (just an educated guess from working with both CPUS with stuff live CasparCG, haven't tested it yet).

I think 30% or even 50% CPU power left is enough to use the replay system for the entire time in "recorded mode".

How about this:

Having a "CPU heavy" or "Pro" mode or something by choosing it when creating a replay input. Only Computers with certain CPUs should be able to start it in this mode or soften it a little bit an only warn the user.

Replay channel A and B are always recorded footage in this mode and if you go "live" you just go to the last recorded frame. This would enable the "professional way" of creating replays in Vmix: Watch recorded "live" footage -> scroll back -> Mark in -> play -> mark out

This way you can be spot on with your replays and save a lot of time. It's just the easiest workflow.



And another thing:

I would really love to know how CPU heavy a 4 stream recorded playback would be and if a i7 4930k can handle it. It would be a perfect setup with 4 real live monitors above and 4 recorded inputs monitors instead of just 2.

Regards,
Patrick