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fluozh  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 21, 2021 12:05:58 PM(UTC)
fluozh

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Hello, I'm currently moving our production to NDI.
We're using vMix and Birddog converters to move NDI from current HDMI/SDI based production, but I'm getting source drops in vMix statistics.
I could not see any dropped/struggled frame in program visually though, I'm still worrying about those drops.
If I can decrease or eliminate source drops, or got any advice, please let me know and help.

We're using following equipments :
1x NETGAER M4250 for dedicated NDI switch(configured for NDI4 profile)
1x Workstation PC with vMix 4K(i9-9900K/RTX3070. 2x 1Gbps ethernet port)
1x Laptop with vMix 4K(i7-7700HQ/GTX1060. 1x 1Gbps ethernet port)
2x Birddog converters(Flex4KBP,Studio, latest firmware. PoE)

All vMix PCs are configured for NDI(QoS disabled, EEE disabled etc)
NDI library updated(NDI5 dll)
All Ethernet cable is CAT5A or CAT6.

It's using ~700Mbps with 4 1080p59.94 sources.

If it's normal to have few source drops in NDI production, I think I'm fine.
If any of you running NDI production with no source drops, let me know!

Thanks.
mavik  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 22, 2021 2:55:16 AM(UTC)
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with 700mbps you are at the upper end of what is possible in a 1G network. The beauty with the birddogs is that you are able to control the bandwidth. You have two options. #1 stepping up to 10G network. #2 lowering the bandwidth of the signals.
I made a video about NDI bandwidth consumption that might help to understand it better.
thanks 1 user thanked mavik for this useful post.
fluozh on 9/22/2021(UTC)
fluozh  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 22, 2021 11:16:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post

with 700mbps you are at the upper end of what is possible in a 1G network. The beauty with the birddogs is that you are able to control the bandwidth. You have two options. #1 stepping up to 10G network. #2 lowering the bandwidth of the signals.
I made a video about NDI bandwidth consumption that might help to understand it better.



Thank you mavik! I'll buy SFP+ 10G NIC and cable for 10G connection. Also I try to lower bitrate by BD converters.
I'll post update once I got one.
fluozh  
#4 Posted : Saturday, September 25, 2021 12:52:55 AM(UTC)
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Update: I've installed 10Gbps NIC(10Gtek X520-10G-1S-X8 1*SFP+ card) and connect to M4250 with DAC cable.
Linked up, identified 10Gbps correctly, but still getting drops.
By checking vMix statistics, "Source Drop" and "Resync" are increasing(resync value is close to SD)
again I'm not sure if its normal to drop few frames in NDI, or I should worry it.
But if I can decrease source drop somehow, I'm willing to try it.
AudioGreg  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2021 2:07:48 PM(UTC)
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I'm seeing this happen on a few machines. I have a very stable 10G NDI optimized network with no issues in the past. We have recently updated these i9-9900K/Quadro boxes to vMix 24.0.0.66, and also upgraded our NDI tools to v5. Seems like one or both of these upgrades might be contributing...I have older versions of vMix23/NDI4 still running that isn't doing this on the same network with the same sources. By "this" I mean I'm seeing what fluozh is seeing in the input stats - source drop increasing at an unacceptable rate. If you look at motion content, like shooting my ceiling fan, or something like a long train going past, you can see it pause/freeze for a frame or 3 and then pop back to normal motion. Happens randomly every 5-15 seconds. It's not terrible, but on the other hand it isn't right either.

More testing required. Anywhere I can get older versions of vMix so I can roll back for elimination?
fluozh  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2021 10:55:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: AudioGreg Go to Quoted Post
I'm seeing this happen on a few machines. I have a very stable 10G NDI optimized network with no issues in the past. We have recently updated these i9-9900K/Quadro boxes to vMix 24.0.0.66, and also upgraded our NDI tools to v5. Seems like one or both of these upgrades might be contributing...I have older versions of vMix23/NDI4 still running that isn't doing this on the same network with the same sources. By "this" I mean I'm seeing what fluozh is seeing in the input stats - source drop increasing at an unacceptable rate. If you look at motion content, like shooting my ceiling fan, or something like a long train going past, you can see it pause/freeze for a frame or 3 and then pop back to normal motion. Happens randomly every 5-15 seconds. It's not terrible, but on the other hand it isn't right either.

More testing required. Anywhere I can get older versions of vMix so I can roll back for elimination?



That is interesting, I thought later vMix and NDI5 is more stable for receiving sources.
If possible, I want to downgrade my vMix and NDI Tools and see how it goes...
mavik  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 30, 2021 4:10:11 AM(UTC)
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Try NDI4 first. I guess that is the most critical part
thanks 1 user thanked mavik for this useful post.
fluozh on 9/30/2021(UTC)
fluozh  
#8 Posted : Thursday, September 30, 2021 4:01:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
Try NDI4 first. I guess that is the most critical part



Tried NDI4 dll(Rolling back from NDI5.x .dll). All of my converters only supports NDI4 but still no change.

but I have figured out few tinhs.
When my video has a lot of movements, it may cause source drops(NINTENDO Switch's SSBU causes so many drops).
And my obs-ndi had best result compared to other Birddog/Magewell converters or vMix.

I'm still wondering why this happens. perhaps encoding issue?

https://pbs.twimg.com/me...ormat=png&name=small
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