logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Slaver  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:16:21 PM(UTC)
Slaver

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/27/2014(UTC)
Posts: 112
Location: Germany

Thanks: 27 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Hey Folks,

i have a brand new system with the following specifications:

CPU: Intel i9-9900K
MB: GIGABYTE Aorus Z390
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER
RAM: 32 GB DDR4-3200
OS: Windows 10
Capture: 2 x Blackmagic DeckLink Duo 2

When i open up a new vMix preset with 2 External Outputs (SDI 1080 50i) on the DeckLink Cards, my render time jumps up to 23 ms and higher with just 7 overall inputs (4 Cameras / 2 Videos / 1 graphic) and no 2nd monitor.

I just worked on the hints of vmix https://www.vmix.com/kno...nosing-high-render-times but could not find any of these problems on my computer.

Thanks guys if somebody can help me out.
nomski  
#2 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 1:09:00 AM(UTC)
nomski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/14/2016(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Sheffield

As far as I know there is no answer to this. We chased our tails for quite some time trying to resolve this. We've ended up not using the external output on the Decklink card and using NDI instead. Which throws up a whole new world of pain! No matter what happens, if we have an external output (NDI or otherwise, we get render time spikes). It would be great if someone knew the answer.

Also, would be good to know if this is just a symptom on everyone's computer and everyone else just ignores it.
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 2:44:22 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Unless you absolutely need external on the Decklink for chroma, you'd better use the outputs of your graphic card or NDI as already suggested
Vince Beck  
#4 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 1:06:07 PM(UTC)
Vince Beck

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/28/2019(UTC)
Posts: 351
United States
Location: Santa Rosa

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 51 time(s) in 51 post(s)
We run Obsidian systems and I have not seen that on AJA external outputs.

60 plus inputs and we are at 2-5ms. Have you tried enabling high output performance?
Babbit  
#5 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 2:10:40 PM(UTC)
Babbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/26/2020(UTC)
Posts: 76
United States
Location: Maryland

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 26 time(s) in 20 post(s)
Are both your Decklinks running at x4? There is a stipulation with the third PCI-E slot for that motherboard:

Quote:
3. 1 x PCI Express x16 slot, running at x4 (PCIEX4)
* The PCIEX4 slot shares bandwidth with the M2P connector. The PCIEX4 slot operates at up to x2 mode when a PCIe SSD is installed in the M2P connector.
Slaver  
#6 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:00:21 PM(UTC)
Slaver

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/27/2014(UTC)
Posts: 112
Location: Germany

Thanks: 27 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Thank you very much for your answers and trying to helping me out and sharing your thoughts on my problem.

I also send my configuration to the vmix support, but they are also end of ideas.

@Babbit
I have no M.2 PCI-E device installed, but thank you for that idea. Is there any chance if the card i running on 2x or 4x?

@DWAM
the system has been built for tv productions. One sdi output is the real pgm and the other sdi is clean pgm without overlays and commentary.

@Vince Beck
the support told me not to turn it on what makes me confuse.


The setup and cameras are setup to 1080 50i, what is the highest render time i can go with?
DWAM  
#7 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:24:56 PM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Quote:
the system has been built for tv productions. One sdi output is the real pgm and the other sdi is clean pgm without overlays and commentary.

I would still use GTX outs with HDMI to SDI converters for such a workflow... even at the expense of 1 extra frame latency...
NiBTour  
#8 Posted : Friday, November 27, 2020 12:50:36 AM(UTC)
NiBTour

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/28/2016(UTC)
Posts: 155
Man
United States
Location: SACRAMENTO

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 17 post(s)
Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
the system has been built for tv productions. One sdi output is the real pgm and the other sdi is clean pgm without overlays and commentary.

I would still use GTX outs with HDMI to SDI converters for such a workflow... even at the expense of 1 extra frame latency...


I'm curious why? I only use external with AjA and decklink duo 2's with no issues and would prefer it over the GTX hdmi card any day. When using the hdmi out you subject yourself to a random popup not caring where the main primary display is and now you have an error window or notification on program (even though you turned them off) and then the rare sound issue or handshake resolution change screwing things up. All rare but i just always hated using my program out as an invisible monitor. note these are all issues usually when you have only one system and one person. But i was kind of shocked to hear you say not to use the external SDI\hdmi on a decklink or aja and was curious why. i've never had an issue with the external and its always been rock solid. now i can't say that about the BMD cards but once you get them working they seem good. its the initial install at times i've had them be a SOB :)

You know your stuff so i was hoping you would share a little more.

as always thank you!

-king
Vince Beck  
#9 Posted : Friday, November 27, 2020 2:43:05 AM(UTC)
Vince Beck

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/28/2019(UTC)
Posts: 351
United States
Location: Santa Rosa

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 51 time(s) in 51 post(s)
Same here. I only use extra display ports out for local client outputs. Used all 5 last week for various people. But anything going to stream and records is an External output via AJA SDI.
DWAM  
#10 Posted : Friday, November 27, 2020 3:19:26 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Quote:
I'm curious why?


I have never been satisfied when using external outs for SDI on BMD cards (DUO2). I found it had more latency, I experienced frequent stuttering, did not find it reliable enough for 24/7 (had to start/stop ext frequently) and I do not trust BMD (each update brings surprizes). Might be specific to my systems, I don't know. As a matter of fact I stopped trying to go that way long ago... My PGM out usually goes to a HDMI splitter or HDMI to SDI converter (for use via a VideoHub router) with or without embedded audio.

Regarding mouse and alerts appearance, it is easy to set so that it can't happen.

However I reckon that OP's use case (feed for broadcast TV) is totally different than mine (live events production). If you guys consider it good enough it's fine with me... Just wanted to share an alternative way to work.
Babbit  
#11 Posted : Friday, November 27, 2020 3:36:18 PM(UTC)
Babbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/26/2020(UTC)
Posts: 76
United States
Location: Maryland

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 26 time(s) in 20 post(s)
We have 5 vMix systems integrated into our broadcast facility at my day job. SDI output is perfect for us and I wouldn't do it any other way. Reference is a must for us (yes, I know there are also converters that can accept reference) since they are used with production switchers. I went from a spaghetti factory of a CAD drawing to 2 rectangles and some lines (the second being a Dante AVIO for AES67 connectivity to a Riedel Artist 128).

One of our systems exists strictly to take an SDI input, delay it, lay an animated bug over it, and then output it over SDI. We forget about that system weeks at a time, and that's with knowing that there are people who will raise a stink the moment there's something wrong with the output.

And all these systems use ancient Decklink SDI and Decklink Studio cards... in tandem in each system since they can't do unique outputs while capturing.

With your given configuration, I think it's unlikely that either card is running in X2. But you can use a program like HWiNFO to verify as well as get the lay of the land of your system. Here's what my DeckLink Duo 2 looks like:
HWiNFO

If you haven't already, try a single DeckLink card at a time in each of the slots and see if you get different, and hopefully better results. It's entirely possible that there's just too much going on with that part of the chipset to properly accommodate the card. I'm saying this in horrible layman's terms.

I would also start with a new preset, establish your 2 external outputs, and then gradually add your sources. It may be useful to see when the render time starts to creep up, assuming it's not from the get-go.

Another thing that has just come up: Martin pointed out there's some performance issues with the more recent Nvidia drivers. You'll probably want to check yours and make sure it's version 452.06 or earlier.

As for high performance output mode: don't be afraid to try it. The worst that can happen is that you'll need to turn it back off. For me, in several instances I had improvements in dropped frames, particularly with multicorder, when enabled. I also run vMix in high priority.

If you're at the end of your rope, there are still other ways out. You can enable NDI on the necessary outputs and use another system with Newtek NDI Connect free edition to turn that around to DeckLink SDI output. Obviously it's more stuff to deal with, like an extra system and DeckLink card(s) you may or may not have. The preference would be to resolve the existing issue.
thanks 1 user thanked Babbit for this useful post.
Slaver on 12/1/2020(UTC)
Slaver  
#12 Posted : Saturday, November 28, 2020 8:32:31 PM(UTC)
Slaver

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/27/2014(UTC)
Posts: 112
Location: Germany

Thanks: 27 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
@Babbit

I checked it, both duo 2 are running x4. Thank you for the hint with hwinfo.

Even when there is just one duo 2 installed and i set up to external outputs with different audio, render time is between 19 and 24ms. And this is without, streaming, recording and replay.

@NiBTour

when i use the outputs of my rtx, how to route the audio?
DWAM  
#13 Posted : Saturday, November 28, 2020 9:03:35 PM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Quote:
when i use the outputs of my rtx, how to route the audio?

The same way as for any audio outs > in audio outputs settings > just select the Nvidia Output as the device to use.
thanks 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
Slaver on 12/1/2020(UTC)
Babbit  
#14 Posted : Sunday, December 6, 2020 1:51:26 PM(UTC)
Babbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/26/2020(UTC)
Posts: 76
United States
Location: Maryland

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 26 time(s) in 20 post(s)
Didn't have a change until today, but I fired up vMix on my system and tried 1920x1080/50i with 2 external outputs. I have a Ryzen 9 3900X/x570 system with a single Decklink Duo 2 (board won't accommodate 2), but memory and graphics card are the same.

0-2 ms rendering with no inputs. I added 4 sample inputs and a Decklink input and played a couple videos at the same time. That bumped up to 5-10 ms. Running a multicorder with 4 recordings took me to 12 ms territory.

I then assigned A bus audio to external 1 and B bus audio to external 2 and changed a couple source audio assignments. That didn't alter render times at all. I also disabled high input performance mode and any of the advanced performance options I had been using. That didn't affect the render times one way or another.

I know that's not particularly useful, but it at least proves that the given scenario is doable to an extent.

The only other things I can think of are making sure the Decklink drivers are current and checking the graphics card settings and disabling anything aimed toward optimal power instead of performance.

pingu2k  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 13, 2021 8:01:07 PM(UTC)
pingu2k

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/17/2020(UTC)
Posts: 23
Germany
Location: Berlin

Thanks: 16 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I've two ryzen systems, and experiencing similiar problems on one device.

Do you have any updates on your problem? Have you resolved the issues?
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.