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shawntempesta  
#1 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 11:13:56 AM(UTC)
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Alright, I'll try to explain everything that is going on here and maybe one of you has dealt with all of this before. I've played with vMix at home, which worked great. Now I'm not working on my network, and I have to comply with the engineer.

In order to get audio from our soundboard (all IP on its own VLAN) I need one network cable. I will get that audio via Dante virtual sound card. But that's all I'll get from it. They don't want me streaming or running NDI cameras on this VLAN.

I will need to plug in another cable from our general internet network which will provide the box the ability to plug NDI cameras, along with internet access to stream out. They have a very limited number of IPs for this network and are saying they cannot give me dedicated IPs for my NDI cameras (all PTZOptics). PTZOptics cameras have an IP tool that allows you to flash the camera with a new, fixed IP. Does this work on the local end without them assigning me an IP? Would just a dedicated IP for the computer itself on their end suffice?

Did not want to have two separate networks as I'm sure it complicates everything, but wanted to see if anyone has worked with two like this, and how dialing into vMix Social has worked for you?

Question is should I have two network connections (one for audio, the other for NDI and Internet) or three (one for audio, one for internet, one unmanaged switch for NDI).

If anyone understands what I just said, I appreciate your help. Thank you!!
DWAM  
#2 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 5:20:31 PM(UTC)
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Get yourself a router and a good switch

Set this router's WAN port with one IP address in this radio network > this will bring you a gateway for internet access.

Set this router's DHCP server to create your own production LAN, it will give IP addresses to all the devices connected to your switch

Plug all your devices. Now they can all communicate together on your own LAN and they have access to the internet

Now one more issue : the VLAN for Dante. 2 options:
- if your router is good enough (needs 3 NICS) it can be set to be part of this VLAN and routes all traffic so that your entire LAN has access to the VLAN.
- otherwise just set your vMix computer (or another computer from your LAN) to be part of this VLAN with a 2nd NIC

Done!

Guillaume

PS : for a good router, check pfsense that you can install on an old computer. You just need 3 NICS.

PS2 : always create your own LAN for video production, never expect it can run nested in somebody's else network.

PS3 : French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre once said "Hell is other people"... He's right ! If you rely on radio network, it's hell. If you rely on yourself, it's pretty simple.
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shawntempesta on 12/14/2018(UTC)
Vuurmannetje  
#3 Posted : Saturday, December 8, 2018 7:59:48 AM(UTC)
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If money isn't too big an issue, you can install a rednet card into the system to use as your audio interface. Basically a NIC that shows up as an audio interface and takes in Dante at ultra low latency.
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shawntempesta on 12/14/2018(UTC)
shawntempesta  
#4 Posted : Friday, December 14, 2018 3:43:09 PM(UTC)
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Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the late response. Thought this would email me when I got a new message. Appears not!

Guillaume - I have essentially created this with a switch. The computer has a reserved IP on the network. The NIC itself is it's own gateway for another batch of IP's going to the NDI cameras. Issue I am dealing with is the cameras eventually start to get pretty delayed - this is on 720p30 so it can't be a bandwidth thing.

What I am worried about is the cameras are traveling through the network - and thus the latency is getting worse and worse. Returns me to the likely need for a third NIC.
mavik  
#5 Posted : Friday, December 14, 2018 7:21:20 PM(UTC)
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A good and powerful switch that supports everything doesn't have to be expensive. It starts from 40$.
I would get a mikrotik router. That supports almost everything that you can think of.
https://mikrotik.com/product/hex_s
should do it.
A fantastic PoE Switch that I work with is
https://mikrotik.com/product/crs112_8p_4s_in

Esentially you could just use the switch as it supports routing as well but is not specifically build for that task.

NDI/Network delay. Make sure you have enough bandwidth available. A gig network can be utilized fully just with a few NDI sources as each can got as high as 100-120 Mbit/s. Having 5 or 6 cams can saturate the network already. Make sure the MTU is set correctly. If set too high packet fragmentation will be done by the NIC which will throttle the NIC throughput.
DWAM  
#6 Posted : Saturday, December 15, 2018 12:19:15 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
Having 5 or 6 cams can saturate the network already.

No 6/7 FullHD NDI feeds will saturate a single Gigabit NIC, not the network
mjgraves  
#7 Posted : Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:52:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
Having 5 or 6 cams can saturate the network already.

No 6/7 FullHD NDI feeds will saturate a single Gigabit NIC, not the network


PTZ Optics cameras are NDI-HX, which is < 20 Mbps per stream. Not full NDI, which would be >120 Mbps.

Also, you can add a second (or third) NIC to your vMix hosts. NDI automatically aggregates the available connections.
shawntempesta  
#8 Posted : Sunday, December 16, 2018 4:55:06 PM(UTC)
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Thanks everyone. Took the network off the Gigabit switch, and gave the switch it's own NIC with cameras only. Smooth sailing with only a 4-6 frame lag with one camera so far after an hour. Looking good!
mavik  
#9 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 8:10:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mjgraves Go to Quoted Post
Also, you can add a second (or third) NIC to your vMix hosts. NDI automatically aggregates the available connections.


That sounds a bit like magic. I haven't tested, but the computer usually follows the lowest metric setting to prioritze traffic. A 2nd or even 3rd connection normally wouldn't be utilized if not combined at the network layer into a single virtual interface. Or added into manual routes to make use of them.

I'm not that deep into NDI in that regards but would like to expand my knowledge. Please share more details on the mechanisms how NDI detects and used multiple NIC to aggregate bandwidth.
Vuurmannetje  
#10 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 10:22:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mjgraves Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
Having 5 or 6 cams can saturate the network already.

No 6/7 FullHD NDI feeds will saturate a single Gigabit NIC, not the network


PTZ Optics cameras are NDI-HX, which is < 20 Mbps per stream. Not full NDI, which would be >120 Mbps.

Also, you can add a second (or third) NIC to your vMix hosts. NDI automatically aggregates the available connections.


Just to be clear, link aggregation is never automatic, it all depends on how the host computer and the network are set up.

The situation where it seems automatic:

NIC1 - Internet
NIC2 - NDI devices

NDI protocol will search all available NICs for NDI sources as well as broadcast NDI outputs to them. As such, if you use multiple networks with NDI devices spread out, it will work.

What vmix and non-server windows will not do, is aggregate (bond) multiple NICs and do load balancing by default. Windows 10 only allows this for NICs that have multiple ports. For everything else its pretty much at random what NIC it would take if theyre all on the same network.
mavik  
#11 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 6:07:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Vuurmannetje Go to Quoted Post
For everything else its pretty much at random what NIC it would take


It's not random. It's the metric that dictates what NIC is used. The cheapest path first. You can reduce/add costs by changing the metric. You can have a look at all this on a windows machine by typing route print into cmd.
kane  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2018 11:33:57 AM(UTC)
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Just to expand on this, NDI at the protocol level supports the ability to use multiple NICs. You do not need a switch that support link aggregation to take advantage of it.

In NDI 3.0 and earlier, this feature works on a channel basis. Each NDI channel would be assigned to a NIC, it would not be split a channel between them.

With NDI 3.5 and higher, this feature works on a packet level. Each packet of the NDI signal will be sent out round robin between all NICs that can get the traffic to the destination. Both the sender and receiver need to support NDI 3.5+ for this method to be used.

One restriction to this, is that you need to use the same network interface speed between all interfaces. Do not connect a 1GbE and 10GbE, because the 1GbE will limit the performance of the 10GbE if both interfaces can get to the same NDI destination.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
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Vuurmannetje on 12/19/2018(UTC)
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