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richardgatarski  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 1:21:28 AM(UTC)
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Years ago I started a discussion about this, and promised myself to make a Feature request for it - but I forgot.

A typical use case is to add content to the Output and show the result only to the talents in a studio show. For examples content like the remaining time of a VT clip or an upcoming vMix Social lower third. Another use is to add a sign intepreter, or subtitles, to the Output and in order to also provide an accessible stream (eg by Fullscreen out to Vidiu, LiveU, OBS, etc).

I do all the above already using a workaround via NDI. That is, enable NDI on Output and then add a new Input using that NDI stream as a source. But that consumes what I suspect is unneccesary CPU for encoding the NDI stream, and it feels sort of awkward.

Of course it is possible to run vMix on a second PC and use the Output of the first as an Input on the second. In some productions we actually do that to distribute resource use and provide a bit of redundancy for safety reasons. But in other cases using multiple PCs is simply overkill...

I guess more vMix producers than I use the NDI workaround, anyone that would prefer to have Ouput listed as a possible source when adding new Inputs, MultiView layers, etc?
niemi  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 1:53:01 AM(UTC)
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+1

Makes sense Richard.
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richardgatarski on 10/23/2018(UTC)
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:46:06 AM(UTC)
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I don't get it Richard!
As I understand it you would like to output PGM + other info to a different output.

What's the problem with using OUT2 3 or 4 to do this with a single computer?
What's the problem in having a dedicated multiview input (with this sign interpretor, or the specific social media, or any clock, or prod only titles/info) set on OUT2? Did you forget that you can trigger any input sent to PGM to also be sent to the overlay number of your choice in this multiview? That any title overlaid in PGM can also to triggered to be added in this very same multiview input? DId you forget that you can "sub-switch" to any (multiview) input in vMix even if it's not on air ?

I reckon this is extra and specific programming work but I consider it an opportunity to add value and being paid for. Customers who want/need this usually agree to pay for it. Does the competition allow this for free. I guess not...

I have often done this to feed the stage monitor for the speakers to see special information like timings/twitter questions or remote guests before they are live as well as they see what's being webcasted. Although I usually use UTC for this, nothing prevents me from doing it with vMix only 100%. And we don't need PGM out as an input for this. Remember this video I did on the Akai with the extensive use of the SetMultiviewOverlay command and what I called "double switching"? Just set this specific multiview on external 2-4 and you're done. With or without a Midi controller or UTC or VPB

OTOH, adding main output as an input is risky. What happens if this input goes to PGM (by accident)? An everlasting loop... on air...

Alternatively, new NDI Monitor allows to add and switch overlays from any sources...

Guillaume
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mjgraves on 10/23/2018(UTC)
richardgatarski  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:50:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
I don't get it Richard!

Well, let's see if I can explain it differently/elaborated.

First of all, our ambition is to provide cost effective productions for our customers. Of course some clients have large budgets that could swallow extra work hours required if one builds up a parallell production using triggers, Multiview tricks, and u name it. But why should they pay extra if the result could be obtained more effectively? And thus give us time to do more produtions for other clients.

The point is that we do one main production (going to Output) using Cameras, Graphics, Transitions, Multiviews, Overlays, Triggers, Audio, and soforth. Quite frequently we add stuff to the setup when live. One typical case is when we realize we need an extra Multiview combining a Mentimeter result with shots of the audience. Another case is when we add a Virtual Input providing a zoomed-in shot of a Camera. In both these cases a "dedicated multiview", as you suggest, would complicate things - especially when live (extra mental burden for the operator).

Now, consider one of our cases (documented on our web page), and the snapshot below. The upper right part (original production) was produced on one PC using all the stuff mentioned in the previous paragraph. That part shown in the snapshot is actually a combination of one cropped camera Input (the presenter) and another Input with a copy of the video signal going the the room's projector (her slides). As a matter of fact, we also used Merge to go from/to that particular shot to/from just the camera Input. Try doing that in a "dedicated multiview".

As examplified in my previous post the original production was then picked up in another PC. As this particular production was made in 2015 we did it via Fullscreen fed to a Magewell USB dongle on the second PC, where we added the sign interpreter and the subtitles. Nowadays we instead use NDI for PC one to PC two. But, imagine if we could do everything in one PC. The only missing piece is having access to Output. If we had that we could add a Multiview Input and with it do whet we did on the second PC. Then Fullscreen that Multiview to an external streamer, and record it in vMix's second Recorder.

Then to the risky part. What happens if a Multiview Input is added as a layer on itself? No one knows, because you can't - vMix simply does not allow it. I am pretty sure vMix could stop the operator from transitioning an Input that contains the Output to the Output. What happens if an NDI Input with Output as a source is transitioned to Output? It just looks ugly, but vMix does not crash and one can easily swith to another source.

I am pretty sure that if this Feature was implemented people would find all kinds of mindblowing uses.

Side note, I to my side don´t understand what OUT2,3, or 4 has anything to do with my request. Neither of those are directly available to Inputs.

UserPostedImage
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niemi on 10/24/2018(UTC)
um@equilive.dk  
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2018 6:57:07 PM(UTC)
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In denmark where we use Vmix for Equestrian shows - we have the same wish...

In our big arena Boxen in Herning, we have a square led screen (6x6m). We normally split it up in 3 parts - upper third, middel and lower third. In the middel section we run 16:9 live picture, commercials etc. The upper and lower thirds are used for more static information - competition sponsors, results etc.

Today we are using the NDI out and capture this locally - but we notice that there is a small delay - which is very visible when doing fx. show jumping.

It would be awesome if it was possible to create a input the matches PGM - it could easily be placed under input type "Colour" - and hopefully be more optimized than the NDI out and in operation.

In our setup - it's all about reducing latency and this solution would make a lot of difference.

+1 from us as well


BR
Ulrik
Vuurmannetje  
#6 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2018 7:42:39 PM(UTC)
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+1 but only if there is an actual CPU/GPU efficiency increase here.

Im extensively using the PGM feed as a NDI source in my productions to show callers in a green room with a view on whats live before they go on air.
richardgatarski  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2019 4:31:00 AM(UTC)
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We have recently learned the hard way, on two different occasions, that the Output to Input via NDI route is problematic (beyond the added delay). Turns out that this requires us to be behind a router. Some networks (e.g. at conference venues) prohibits us to pass the video via NDI.
ukcpw  
#8 Posted : Saturday, December 7, 2019 1:09:16 AM(UTC)
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+1
quaddro  
#9 Posted : Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:21:18 AM(UTC)
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+1
this would be very Useful!
beedegee  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 6:24:30 PM(UTC)
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+1

We want to send the clients a multieview like split with the other participants and a PGM feed
mavik  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2020 7:16:33 PM(UTC)
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Have you tried the two build in mini mixers. They can provide independent mixes. Might be a solution for you guys if I understand your problem correct.
TFMG  
#12 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 6:57:54 PM(UTC)
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+1

We use vMix to drive our main 4:3 screen as well as many secondary 16:9 screens.
To make up the ratio difference, we loop the output back in via NDI, and scale it down to fit without adding letterboxing or squishing the horizontal dimension. We then add a clock and venue name in the bottom so that there's no black space left. All the other outputs can show the full 1080p output as normal, while our 'Fullscreen' output shows the content correctly scaled for it. The only problem that remains is the latency of the NDI loop, and we'd love to get rid of that.
christer  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 1:58:33 AM(UTC)
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+1
RichDanby  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 10:49:31 PM(UTC)
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+1
Definitely useful for showing output + a bit extra to vmix call clients.
Possible to work around with NDI or the legacy vMix Video camera but seems like there should be a more efficient way.
CyberNBD  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2020 9:27:27 PM(UTC)
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+1 definitely useful
Nanthyo  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2020 10:01:38 PM(UTC)
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+1
maxime vanryssel  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2020 10:20:09 PM(UTC)
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+1
rnhturner  
#18 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2020 1:51:17 AM(UTC)
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Plus 1 here!

I do the NDI work around and I am always thinking I am using up valuable resources with the work around.
kricher1964  
#19 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2020 1:54:59 AM(UTC)
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+1
BasilChessman  
#20 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2021 5:04:39 AM(UTC)
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Can't this already be done by turning on the external output? Turn on external, create input, choose camera, show legacy devices then choose vMix video. That should work.
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