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spino  
#1 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2022 3:06:25 AM(UTC)
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I create an input mix2 with four videoclips. I select mix2 to output. I'd like in mix2 a function like "play at the transition" because if I send the videoclip in mix2 preview to mix2 output, now I must play video and audio manually.
doggy  
#2 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2022 3:21:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
I create an input mix2 with four videoclips. I select mix2 to output. I'd like in mix2 a function like "play at the transition" because if I send the videoclip in mix2 preview to mix2 output, now I must play video and audio manually.


Tim explains it (again) ;-)

spino  
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2022 4:48:34 AM(UTC)
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Thank you doggy. I already saw that video but there isn't the solution to my problem there. In the Tim video, the shortcuts are set for main mix (in shortcut "playpause" and "audio" there isn't the option to select mix2). Tomorrow I'll try to go on for a solution but I'm pessimist.
MTB  
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2022 11:21:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
Thank you doggy. I already saw that video but there isn't the solution to my problem there.

"I want this"
"This is not possible, by design, as intended"
"But I want it, cause else I have to do it by hand."


It seems you are locked in your approach of the desired outcome. Since it is vMix the trick is to realize your outcome can probably be achieved by using a different approach or route.
And though lately the first response of many people in that situation seems to 'demand a new feature', wouldn't it be great if instead of waiting till they grow old, they grew as a person and operator?

First step is to accept there might be a very good reason why things are even like this. (This really works out in life in general).
You said you watched the video, let's point to the relevant point you might have missed :
- One important thing to note
- no automatic functions
For example in this case ​the possible confusion that transitions in your mix-input can influence the behavior of the input while it is used in your main mix.
Undesirable outcome averted, by making it not too easy to eff stuff up.
Let's make some effort to achieve that !

So that is why this feature is not there, if you want a better answer, all I can do is transcript Tim from the video around the second or third time he mentioned shortcuts ​:
"You gonna have to sit down and think about how you are going to control the inputs when you are using them as a part of a Mix-input."

As in "you" have to put in the work.
" It's not that it is not possible,
it is just not possible the way you want."


Quote:
In the Tim video, the shortcuts are set for main mix (in shortcut "playpause" and "audio" there isn't the option to select mix2).

Well shortcuts (and triggers) are usually set for inputs, and assuming you want to start the video that you have as a separate input?
But since you saw the video you also caught the mention of shortcuts and triggers having a mix-numbers?
So you can even target your Mix-input with shortcuts.
Quote:
Tomorrow I'll try to go on for a solution but I'm pessimist.
That's the spirit, well at least half of it !

More in general I reckon this is not so much a well designed and thought out Feature Request as a simple first cry for help in starting out with shortcuts.
Though I guess that goes for a lot of these feature requests I see lately.

A feature request is not something that will be picked up and implemented in days or weeks ( or even years if it's a bad one ).
Thinking that creating a (minimal, short, unfounded & incomplete) feature request will solve a persons little own hill they are not willing to take an hour to solve is saying a lot on how people approach their use of vMix and this forum.
And though I (honestly) would love a trigger on Mix-inputs [ OnMixInputTransition or something to that order ] I think getting to a solution that will help me out today is a lot more gratifying then a FR topic.

[/rant over]

  • What do you want to achieve by using a mix input?
  • How do you use this Mix input, back into your mainMix or out to a separate output/fullscreen.
  • Are you using 4 separate video inputs , or a video list with 4 video's ?


Quick throw at what you possibly might want to achieve with your shortcuts :
- Select a input as preview for your Mix-input.
- Play the video
- Transition the Mixinput to get your video input shown
( or if you get really nifty, get dynamic inputs involved )
spino  
#5 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2022 3:45:03 AM(UTC)
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Dear MTB, I'm a Vmix user since a lot of years. I built a midi interface using Arduino. I built a tally light system. I use shortcuts in almost all my productions: no lessons please. Do you thing I haven't tried to find a solution before writing a feature request? Do you have some problem?
MTB  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2022 4:29:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
Dear MTB, I'm a Vmix user since a lot of years. I built a midi interface using Arduino. I built a tally light system. I use shortcuts in almost all my productions: no lessons please. Do you thing I haven't tried to find a solution before writing a feature request? Do you have some problem?

Pretty sure I have no problem, though without a solution you apparently do ?

Without any kind of relevant context besides "I need this" (which sums up the opening post) no single relevant reply is possible.
Neither is design & implementation of a new feature without a proper understatement of what it is you are not able to do.

But sure, no lessons. No problem, it's your party!
Good luck growing old ! :) Lighten up, it helps.
WaltG12  
#7 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2022 6:12:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MTB Go to Quoted Post
So that is why this feature is not there,


While I share your frustration at people who don't understand what they're asking for, and, thus, don't understand how to properly ask for it, sometimes we can help them, rather than just say "This is how it is. Figure out some other way to do it."

Most Feature Requests--heck, most features, for that matter--can be done in other ways. I've been doing the same type of production I'm doing now since at least vMix 11. I don't remember when I started, but I have a support response in my inbox from Martin from 11, so it was at least that far back.

As different features have been added over the years, things have gotten considerably easier & workflows a lot more efficient--what used to require at least 2-3 machines can now be done on 1, for example--but the actual nature of what I've been able to hasn't really changed that much.

Look at the new Preset Bundle feature. It doesn't give you any new abilities. You've always been able to throw a preset on a flash drive, along with the necessary files, and then use that error message to point to the new location. And even without presets, you could always load the files up manually & adjust the settings.

But now, instead of having to do all that, there's a 1 button export. It makes an existing option easier.

There's nothing wrong with features and feature requests that serve that purpose.

The fact that there's a reason a feature doesn't exist in one form also doesn't mean that there's no reason that a workaround can't be suggested that acknowledges the default behavior of the action & provides an alternative for those who are so inclined.

In this case, I went ahead and provided one I've been thinking about for a while here.
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MTB on 2/5/2022(UTC)
doggy  
#8 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2022 9:13:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
I create an input mix2 with four videoclips. I select mix2 to output. I'd like in mix2 a function like "play at the transition" because if I send the videoclip in mix2 preview to mix2 output, now I must play video and audio manually.


be creative ;-)

https://forums.vmix.com/...ng-for-Dummies#post99504
thanks 1 user thanked doggy for this useful post.
MTB on 2/5/2022(UTC)
spino  
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 5, 2022 1:02:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doggy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
I create an input mix2 with four videoclips. I select mix2 to output. I'd like in mix2 a function like "play at the transition" because if I send the videoclip in mix2 preview to mix2 output, now I must play video and audio manually.


be creative ;-)

https://forums.vmix.com/...ng-for-Dummies#post99504



Thank you doggy for your support I appreciate but:

I wrote a feature request just to simplify the procedures and, again, I saw the Tim video but I didn't find a way to solve what I ask in feature request section. I'm working with shortcuts to find a way for what I need but without any success until now.

I understand that maybe an alternative way to solve the problem but I didn't ask help (I repeat I appreciate yours), I simply ask, in apropriated section of the forum, to improve the input mix features.

That's all.

MTB  
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 5, 2022 3:13:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WaltG12 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MTB Go to Quoted Post
So that is why this feature is not there,

There's nothing wrong with features and feature requests that serve that purpose.

The fact that there's a reason a feature doesn't exist in one form also doesn't mean that there's no reason that a workaround can't be suggested that acknowledges the default behavior of the action & provides an alternative for those who are so inclined.

In this case, I went ahead and provided one I've been thinking about for a while here.


I think I largely agree with you as well, and there indeed should always be room for proper formulated feature requests.

But let me summarize my feeling on this thread: "It's not necessarily a bad feature, but it sure as hell is a lousy request."
I think this topic doesn't even come close to something that would be considered something a useful feature request could or should be.

And luckily you just provided a pretty decent example yourself.
I probably don't have to mention on how many points this topic and yours differentiate from each other.
(Though while I'd gladly be of service, I'm pretty sure it won't be appreciated).

Obviously some people just want to vent (noticed that in a different topic on v25 as well) and sit back and wait.
I just had a go at the suggested workaround from doggy ( which as usual is more elegant then my crude sequence of functions ) .
But apparently the spoonfed workaround is as much appreciated as my constructive breakdown of the usefulness of the starterpost.

To everyone his own I guess, though that may cause some backlash from differentiated opinions and feedback might be expected.

WaltG12  
#11 Posted : Sunday, February 6, 2022 3:07:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MTB Go to Quoted Post
But let me summarize my feeling on this thread: "It's not necessarily a bad feature, but it sure as hell is a lousy request."


I can't disagree. That's why I took the liberty of reframing it. It didn't hurt that I'd been toying around with posting something like that one for a while anyway.

I do think, and I'm not saying you're part of it, but I do think that there is a contingent in this forum that's very "You can already do that by doing [massively more complicated & taxing maneuver], so why are you posting this? Just do [more complicated & taxing maneuver]. NEXT!"

I don't know if it's just the nature of the Internet & the lack of tone in text-based communication among strangers or if people are actually doing it, but it sometimes feels like suggestions for alternative & current means of achieving the goal (again, usually in a more complicated & taxing manner) aren't being suggested as a band-aid, but, rather, a wholesale dismissal of the request as something that can already be achieved.

In that regard, I think it's worth pointing out, as I did, that most new features, and most feature requests, are going to be about ways of doing things that can already be done in some manner.



Originally Posted by: MTB Go to Quoted Post
I probably don't have to mention on how many points this topic and yours differentiate from each other.


Very true. My reframed version covers more usages and it acknowledges (& attempts to work around the) logical reasons the feature hasn't been implemented.

But, as far as I can figure, it would provide simple built-in support to still achieve the same ends, which is ultimately what matters.



Originally Posted by: MTB Go to Quoted Post
To everyone his own I guess, though that may cause some backlash from differentiated opinions and feedback might be expected.


I've made (probably more than) my fair share of feature requests. Most seem to go completely ignored by the community.

I'm not sure if I should be flattered that people don't find them worthy of disagreement or the opposite because people don't find the worthy of the opposite either.

At any rate, I'm hoping that Martin, etc. evaluate all the requests on their merit, rather than by the number of people in agreement. That goes for both the good ones that nobody except the asker apparently feels strongly enough to ask for or sign on to, as well as the terrible ones with a sea of +1's, despite being detrimental to existing workflows & users.
doggy  
#12 Posted : Sunday, February 6, 2022 3:55:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WaltG12 Go to Quoted Post


I do think, and I'm not saying you're part of it, but I do think that there is a contingent in this forum that's very "You can already do that by doing [massively more complicated & taxing maneuver], so why are you posting this? Just do [more complicated & taxing maneuver]. NEXT!"



While i do not always explicitly mention it but when i post a solution (scipt or whatever) that can cover (or part) the current FR it should be taken as "untill FR is implemented" this can help you out in the mean time.

But it often appears that a solution is not always wanted ( sure i want this , give, give it to me until you ask for a beer) and +1's are easely given just like a child wants a toy to never look back at.

As vMix says; explain your FR properly, wel though of and how you envision its use and not just as a "I need this". such properly formulated requests have had succes in the last decade! and no , adding a button is not always as easy as it sounds (wel the button itself is , not the workings behind it )

0.2c
spino  
#13 Posted : Sunday, February 6, 2022 8:30:01 PM(UTC)
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Ok, I try to better explain the sense of my request, considering that I’m not english native language.

Well, I worked for a lot of time, with a Grass Valley video switcher and in that machine, as well as in large part of hardware video switchers, there is a section named M/E. In that section there are usually two rows of buttons (tipically “preview” and “output”) and a T-bar. This can be considered as an auxiliary section.

What’s the purpose of M/E section? For example you can switch between a sequence of some videoclips to send into a monitor (real or virtual). The procedure is made manually loading a clip in the preview of M/E, starting the clip coming for example from a video recorder, switching it to the M/E output and finally to the destination. In the proximity of the end of the first videoclip, you can load into the M/E preview a second videoclip coming for example from a second video recorder, starting it and so on.

In Vmix the mix input is considered like a M/E section. The purpose of my request is to automate the process through shortcuts. You can assign a shortcut to load a clip in the mix input preview, another shortcut to send the clip from the preview to the output of mix input playing it at the same time, another shortcut assigned to a second videoclip loading it in the preview, and so on. An aspect to consider is that when you send a clip to the output, the previous clip must stop because could be a case in wich you can switch a clip before that the previous clip has ended.

You could say that this process could create a conflict in the videoclips, but this could be overcomed creating in the pc a copy of the videoclip with different name.


That’s all, I hope that what I esposed is sufficiently clear and I’m frankly surprised that this request has caused all this discussion. The request could be simply ignored by Martin, or (as the answer of doggy) source of alternative way (even if more complicated) but I found the MTB answer to my request slightly arrogant and offensive.

Anyway vicissitude closed on my end.
WaltG12  
#14 Posted : Sunday, February 6, 2022 9:21:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
That’s all, I hope that what I esposed is sufficiently clear and I’m frankly surprised that this request has caused all this discussion.


You're still ignoring the explicitly stated reason for the behavior you want changed.

I'm done trying to help you.

You came in with a request that will be ignored, because it brings no ideas to the table & merely presents an already defeated position.

When people, myself included, pointed that out to you, rather than go back to the drawing board (or merely sign onto my request that adapted yours into something that'll do pretty much exactly what you want in the way you want to do it, but with a chance of actually working out), you're digging in your heels and saying "Well, Martin can always ignore me".

He almost definitely will.

If decisions are influenced by the number of users in agreement, he'll almost definitely ignore mine too.

But, unlike you, I know that I actually did my best in presenting a well-thought out idea that accounts for decisions that have already been made & the logic behind them, rather than just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks with a massive "I don't care" attitude.



Originally Posted by: doggy Go to Quoted Post
While i do not always explicitly mention it but when i post a solution (scipt or whatever) that can cover (or part) the current FR it should be taken as "untill FR is implemented" this can help you out in the mean time.


Personally, I can appreciate that, and I think it's definitely helpful to provide a stop-gap if one is known.

It wasn't necessarily you that I was referring to either.

I could also be completely off-base in my reading, as I mentioned, and everyone could be implying the same. Tone among strangers with the written word is difficult, to say the least.

spino  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2022 2:32:37 AM(UTC)
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In the help section of vmix, in mix input section under not available shorcuts this is written: "Auto play/pause/restart of inputs. (This is to prevent unexpected situations where inputs are used by both the main mix and an input mix)"

Ok, I understand that but, as I mentioned, if you create two same clips with two different names, you can use one for the main mix and the second one for mix input: in this case the unexspected situations are overcome and I ask just to implement that shortcut, nothing else. If Martin legitimately still thinks that shortcut is dangerous (but I imagine possible) ok no problem, in the "future request" section of the forum there are a lot of ignored requests, mine will be one of those.
Anyway I don't want to go on. In my opinion this thread has become too long and useless, I'm still convinced that my request is reasonable but on my end I stop here.
melody  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2022 11:38:29 AM(UTC)
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Spino,
Did you try to "create virtual input"?
spino  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2022 6:18:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: melody Go to Quoted Post
Spino,
Did you try to "create virtual input"?


Thank you Melody for your advice but the management of inputs (videoclips in my case) isn't a problem. My initial request was to unlock, or create, a shortcut to use in mix input as explained before.
doggy  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2022 6:54:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: melody Go to Quoted Post
Spino,
Did you try to "create virtual input"?


Thank you Melody for your advice but the management of inputs (videoclips in my case) isn't a problem. My initial request was to unlock, or create, a shortcut to use in mix input as explained before.


ok, it should be clear by now that vMix is reluctant to grant this FR (for now) for reasons stated in the video for one.

Regarding the use of shortcuts to do what you want the video also explains how this can be done partially and a (base) working script was given to fulfill your request for automation of (original post):
Quote:
function like "play at the transition"
or as is mentioned just here above
Quote:
or create a shortcut


FWIW: a script can be called like a function with a shortcut or constantly check a situation and be turned on or off

We all know it never hurts to do a FR (well argumented ones) but most of us know when to accept facts too and get on with what is currently available until the FR fairy grants our wish
melody  
#19 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2022 10:37:50 PM(UTC)
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spino,

ok, going more objective, i watched the Tim's video and thinked a little more about your request, lets try to do some kind of "try-error" procedure.

so, did you try to set a shortcut like Tim explain in the video at 6:20? maybe associating some shortcuts to the same key, you can be able to do your "play at the transition".
spino  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2022 11:37:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doggy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: spino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: melody Go to Quoted Post
Spino,
Did you try to "create virtual input"?


Thank you Melody for your advice but the management of inputs (videoclips in my case) isn't a problem. My initial request was to unlock, or create, a shortcut to use in mix input as explained before.


ok, it should be clear by now that vMix is reluctant to grant this FR (for now) for reasons stated in the video for one.

Regarding the use of shortcuts to do what you want the video also explains how this can be done partially and a (base) working script was given to fulfill your request for automation of (original post):
Quote:
function like "play at the transition"
or as is mentioned just here above
Quote:
or create a shortcut


FWIW: a script can be called like a function with a shortcut or constantly check a situation and be turned on or off

We all know it never hurts to do a FR (well argumented ones) but most of us know when to accept facts too and get on with what is currently available until the FR fairy grants our wish



Ok doggy, I accept your arguments, your replay is written in an acceptable way. What I don't accept are some replays like life lesson.
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