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pesi  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2018 10:19:13 AM(UTC)
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Our CDN (DaCast) has started providing HLS streaming with low latency.
Right now the only encoder that allows HLS encoding is a free OBS Studio version specially provided by DaCast - however, this is nowhere near as functional as vMix to use as a mixer.
When will vMix be able to encode streams as HLS (if ever)?
This would be extremely useful.
MartLeib  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2018 5:47:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: pesi Go to Quoted Post
Our CDN (DaCast) has started providing HLS streaming with low latency.
Right now the only encoder that allows HLS encoding is a free OBS Studio version specially provided by DaCast - however, this is nowhere near as functional as vMix to use as a mixer.
When will vMix be able to encode streams as HLS (if ever)?
This would be extremely useful.


For now, use that OBS for streaming your vMix output. Fast and simple solution at this time.
pesi  
#3 Posted : Sunday, March 3, 2019 11:01:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MartLeib Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: pesi Go to Quoted Post
Our CDN (DaCast) has started providing HLS streaming with low latency.
Right now the only encoder that allows HLS encoding is a free OBS Studio version specially provided by DaCast - however, this is nowhere near as functional as vMix to use as a mixer.
When will vMix be able to encode streams as HLS (if ever)?
This would be extremely useful.


For now, use that OBS for streaming your vMix output. Fast and simple solution at this time.


Sorry, did not see your post till now...
How would one stream from vMix to OBS - would that be using 2 computers (one for each software)?
What would the output from vMix be and what would be the input to OBS?
Thanks for any advice...

stigaard  
#4 Posted : Sunday, March 3, 2019 9:45:57 PM(UTC)
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NDI?
mavik  
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2019 6:46:08 PM(UTC)
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+1 for HLS streaming output.
pesi  
#6 Posted : Thursday, November 21, 2019 8:05:57 AM(UTC)
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An unnecessary complication, right? using 2 computers to stream one event?
Sending a stream from one computer to another computer for re-encoding? More chances of something going wrong with hardware or software.
Aren't there any plans for vMix to incorporare an HLS encoder?
Vince Beck  
#7 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 3:16:54 PM(UTC)
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Late to the party, but if your VMix computer crashed or dies, what happens then? What’s more likely to crash, the VMix computer handling all the load from cutting a show, or the machine streaming from one input. We use a second computer to stream and a copy of the VMix project ready to fire up in case the primary crashes. It lessens the load on the primary and gives us something to go to like a “we’ll be right back” slide should anything happens to the primary.
avsoundguy  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:44:22 AM(UTC)
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We tried a CDN that did HLS streaming for a year and it was a nightmare and anything but low latency so not sure I see a need for it in vMix, make that a -1
Jp12687  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2020 5:52:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: avsoundguy Go to Quoted Post
We tried a CDN that did HLS streaming for a year and it was a nightmare and anything but low latency so not sure I see a need for it in vMix, make that a -1


not going to have much of a choice soon as RTMP is dying Dec 31. https://forums.aws.amazon.com/ann.jspa?annID=7356
stevethornley  
#10 Posted : Friday, July 3, 2020 1:54:08 AM(UTC)
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+1 for HLS

We are about to use Akamai as our CDN for one project and they will only accept HLS.

Is there any news on bringing this protocol to the party?

grantcoll  
#11 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2020 8:30:37 AM(UTC)
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This is an interesting subject, and I think we would all welcome some expert advice. According to amazon link above, the following are planned for the future:
HTTP Live Streaming (HLS)
Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over HTTP (DASH)
Microsoft Smooth Streaming (MSS)
HTTP Dynamic Streaming (HDS)
And most importantly, it would be good to know what vMix future plan is for available encoders.

But also of interest, and which vMix has partial capability is SRT. Haivision (developers) have been doing testing around the world, showing how SRT compares to RTMP. They don't compare it with HLS.
mavik  
#12 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2020 9:31:38 PM(UTC)
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Guys, I have the feeling that you mix up things. HLS, Dash, MSS (almost dead), HDS are for streaming out to players. How the stream is packetized to meet the needs for the variety of players out there.

If I understand this thread right we talked about the other way. The ingest. So how do I stream into a CDN or streaming server. Currently RTMP is the way to go. SRT is getting momentum as well. I want to suggest having the capability to output in CMAF format onto cloud storage like S3. Adding Cloudfront on top and ready is your widely supported and distributable stream. That would be fantastic.

So for me a +1 for additional output formats made the right, future proof way. CMAF, in my eyes.
Speegs  
#13 Posted : Sunday, August 2, 2020 1:02:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: grantcoll Go to Quoted Post
This is an interesting subject, and I think we would all welcome some expert advice. According to amazon link above, the following are planned for the future:
But also of interest, and which vMix has partial capability is SRT. Haivision (developers) have been doing testing around the world, showing how SRT compares to RTMP. They don't compare it with HLS.


I've been using SRT for a while and have to say it's improvement of RTMP. Mostly because the latency is "set" and video "fixed" when packets are lost via the overhead in the SRT protocol. While not technically faster than RTMP, it has error correction and can tolerate packet loss. How much packet-loss largely depends on how you set the latency (in milliseconds), plus the overhead bandwidth which by default is usually around 20% and doesn't need modification.

I think SRT is a great protocol for me fantastic to get video to the streaming server (my server supports it). Between streaming servers (again supported), so you can build your own CDN with reliable latency.

For now it's not a last mile protocol. So from the streaming server to the client, not really popular/useful. That might change.

I wish Youtube and Facebook would accept it, but for now I "republish" via RTMP(S) from our servers.

Vmix SRT --> Cloud Server with heaps of bandwidth --> Clients via SLDP with HLS fallback on Apple devices.

With your Cloud server, you can host that in a VPS, it can then use SRT from the closest server, to distribute to the other servers strategically placed closer to your viewers and with SRT of course you control the latency.

Cloud Server #1 might be in Australia --> SRT (200ms fixed latency) Cloud Server #2 in Singapore --> Viewer hitting Singapore server.

And of course you can rent as many cloud servers as you like and host them at virtually any VPS provider. Linux skills would be required to roll your own solution like that. I use Nimble Streaming Server, but I believe Wowza can do it too.

For Joe Average not interested in becoming a Linux Server Administrator, will be great when Youtube, Vimeo, Facebook, everyone supports SRT ingest.

The next logical step is then native SRT playback in web browsers and phones, so that you can control Streaming Server --> Client latency/quality as well.

Not saying to not add HLS encoding to VMix, but I wouldn't use it and I think long term SRT has a very bright future. HLS has very wide client end support, virtually everything can play it without fancy app downloads or proprietary clients. I hope SRT dissolves the need for HLS, but for now HLS support might be useful because the protocol is simply SO popular with CDNs.
grantcoll  
#14 Posted : Sunday, August 2, 2020 2:23:37 PM(UTC)
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Great info and comments thanks Speegs. I am interested in how the data flow looks with SRT. Ie, if you watch HLS from a viewers perspective, the packets arrive at the viewers computer in blocks. So you can see the bandwidth in your ethernet use jump from 0 to 20mbps and back to 0 for a stream that might be at 2 or 3 mbps. I think what this means is that if you have bandwidth that fluctuates ( a reality these days ), that you can still watch high definition video, since the data arrives in blocks, while a significant period of time, there are zero bytes transferring. Comparing this to the RTMP upstream, data is flowing continuously. So a fluctuation at any point in time, may affect the dataflow. I would be interested in watching the dataflow when streaming SRT.

Another point of difference is that protocols such as RTMP and HLS are based on TCP, whereas SRT is UDP. SRT is handling the lost packets in its own reassembling, whereas RTMP, HLS etc all rely on TCP to look after that. Difficult to know which is best when we rely on the internet to carry this data. UDP is definitely more efficient if the data delivery can be ensured.

My last thought is that of the CDN having to re-encode. I wonder if the data through CDN is faster and more reliable if the upstream is HLS and the downstream is HLS, rather than converting, eg as we do now RTMP to HLS or possibly SRT to HLS. Or maybe browsers will start receiving SRT, but that would require Apple to include SRT, as well as its own HLS deployment.
Speegs  
#15 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2020 10:11:37 AM(UTC)
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SRT is consistent on a network usage graph. Much like RTMP. So it's not a chunk type setup blasting a segment from what I can see. There is great information on SRT that gets more detailed than I can go into, just google secure reliable transport. Googling SRT often returns stuff about the video subtitle format and it's specifications.

Being UDP, is why it works well for sure, it's putting things back together in a way that works for video and error correction.

Commercial CDNs might struggle with SRT, it's not exactly the kind of thing you want to chunk, buffer and cache. I'm sure they will find a way if the protocol became super popular. You can however get UDP (from Vmix) and forward to many IP addresses (players) with the aid of a streaming server that supports SRT. So essentially broadcasting to many people.
thanks 1 user thanked Speegs for this useful post.
grantcoll on 8/17/2020(UTC)
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