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darp  
#1 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 5:43:01 PM(UTC)
darp

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Hi, This is about 10 mins old but have not come up with a flaw yet. And maybe many of you are doing it already.

Saw a $100 4 port HDMI card (Thanko or Sanko) but it turns out only one port works, at least at same time. Fullcompass had a Decklink SDI Quad car for $70?? I got it, they were all fouled up and sent a $100 SDI adpater. They admitted their site was wrong, but will just refund the money instead of taking $900 loss. This happened today, hence hunt for 4 port. Plan was to have up to 4 HDMI cams, then convert to SDI and go to Quad card.

Then idea, are there external HDMI hardware switchers that could be easy to switch?

Well along that line, http://www.amazon.com/Et...rds=4-port+hdmi+switcher

why not use a $30 hardware switcher with ir remote before it gets into the PC? Looked and found on Amazon. And there is a another 4 port for $10 and a 3 port for $8!! Why did I not think of this before?

Why use up PC resources with 4 HD video streams? Just have one stream coming in and switch 4 live HDMI cams with or without PIP for $30 outside the PC.

So you can have 4 cameras, outputting HDMI live, select it via the IR remote (heck host can do that under the table if no producer). AND it has PIP apparently built in so you can have 2-3-4 cams live at same time for separate guests and they all show up in vMix as just one source.

The alternative is to have Decklink quad for $995 and 4 HDMI to SDI converters to get the video from cam to card, lets say $1400 total. Or $8 to $30 for a standalone HDMI switcher box. What shows on vMix output just the same, and the PC does 1/4 the work. All for $8 to $30. And has 4.5 star rating with 400 reviews.

Does this makes sense to the rest of you? In a static 3-4 cam setup you know what each cam is going to have, all you have to do is remember them, easy.

And after the external switcher the single HDMI output goes into single HDMI capture board which can be $40 to $175 or so.
Speegs  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 6:44:16 PM(UTC)
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Hello,

HDMI Switching boxes generally work.

They are slow to switch usually. The HDCP handshakes etc take time. Therefore you need to have another camera or input to display while switching via the box.

You can't see anything right away, so you could be switching to a camera that is offline etc.. missing all the action.

I'd only use them on infrequently used camera shots, but it's way better just to have more inputs/cameras in Vmix and use it to do all your switching.

A Magewell XI400DE-SDI is another option if you want a quad sdi capture card. The price will not be much lower than the Decklink Quad. I just like Magewell because you pretty much never have to worry about frame rates and resolutions being "perfectly" matched. That is the downside I found using Black Magic gear before switching to Magewell. The frustration getting odd ball cameras like GoPros working and then upgrading the GoPro software causing it not to work. Upgrading the BM Driver again causing a GoPro not to work. It's not just GoPros, it's just nice having a scaler built into your capture devices that can turn your 60p/50i/59p/60i sources at most resolutions into a 1080i50 source if that's what you desire without any extra hardware.

Sometimes you just want things to work, no matter what you are trying to capture (computers screens, cameras, gopros etc).
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darp on 7/17/2015(UTC)
darp  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 7:16:29 PM(UTC)
darp

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Speegs wrote:
Hello,

HDMI Switching boxes generally work.

They are slow to switch usually. The HDCP handshakes etc take time. Therefore you need to have another camera or input to display while switching via the box.

You can't see anything right away, so you could be switching to a camera that is offline etc.. missing all the action.

I'd only use them on infrequently used camera shots, but it's way better just to have more inputs/cameras in Vmix and use it to do all your switching.

A Magewell XI400DE-SDI is another option if you want a quad sdi capture card. The price will not be much lower than the Decklink Quad. I just like Magewell because you pretty much never have to worry about frame rates and resolutions being "perfectly" matched. That is the downside I found using Black Magic gear before switching to Magewell. The frustration getting odd ball cameras like GoPros working and then upgrading the GoPro software causing it not to work. Upgrading the BM Driver again causing a GoPro not to work. It's not just GoPros, it's just nice having a scaler built into your capture devices that can turn your 60p/50i/59p/60i sources at most resolutions into a 1080i50 source if that's what you desire without any extra hardware.

Sometimes you just want things to work, no matter what you are trying to capture (computers screens, cameras, gopros etc).



Speegs, that is most helpful, a slow hardware switch did not occur to me, but then again its not a hardwired AB switch, guessing an IC switch with overhead as you suggest. Will just have to try it. a second source is not that hard, and gives you even more camera/s. Am hoping the one I get is is fast and does not freeze prior video.

Will report what I find, just ordered the expensive one, the $30 Etekcity one. It was very highly rated. Hopefully it does not have delay, no one mentioned that in reviews.

Cheers
darp  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 9:14:25 PM(UTC)
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IceStream  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 9:50:45 PM(UTC)
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I responded to your original post here:

IceStream wrote:
@ darp

You may be able to get away with it on a very 'low' end production but I suspect the "Switching" would not be seemless or glitch free.
You have no way to preview the shot, and lose out on a multitude of special effect features available to you in vMix.
It is certainly worth experimenting with as your investment is minimal, but in the end, I think you only get what you pay for.
If it works for you, great! You are ahead of the game.
If not, well, you just throw it all in the pile of other cheap solutions that didn't work and hope that that pile does not amount to more than if you had gone the "tried, tested and true" method from the start.
Just my thoughts.


Ice



Keep us all posted!


Ice


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darp on 7/17/2015(UTC)
darp  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 11:10:49 PM(UTC)
darp

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IceStream wrote:
I responded to your original post here:

IceStream wrote:
@ darp

You may be able to get away with it on a very 'low' end production but I suspect the "Switching" would not be seemless or glitch free.
You have no way to preview the shot, and lose out on a multitude of special effect features available to you in vMix.
It is certainly worth experimenting with as your investment is minimal, but in the end, I think you only get what you pay for.
If it works for you, great! You are ahead of the game.
If not, well, you just throw it all in the pile of other cheap solutions that didn't work and hope that that pile does not amount to more than if you had gone the "tried, tested and true" method from the start.
Just my thoughts.


Ice



Keep us all posted!


Ice




Hi Ice, It seems a lot of gamers have used this, and people who want to switch between watching 3 things, but minimal use by AV with cams folks. On AVforum someone had 5 second dela!y on another more expensive (3 years ago) HDMI switcher and another with $8 3 port one said he gets no delay at all on switches.

I will definitely let all know.
Speegs  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 18, 2015 9:15:57 PM(UTC)
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Just to clarify.. they don't add video delay at least no anything I have noticed. The switch adds the delay.

They add a "handshake" delay when swap from input 1 to 2 for instance that can sometimes take about 1-2 seconds.

You are plugging in a different camera/source. So the delay is all the HDMI business that goes on detecting resolutions, copy protection etc.. and finding a stable signal.

You could also find an issue if Camera 1 is not the exact resolution and frame rate of Camera 2. Unless of course you use a capture device with inbuilt scaling. So my capture device will adapt to if quickly changing from a 1080p source to a 720i source for instance (it will still send Vmix a 1080i signal if that's what I tell it to do). I'm pretty sure some do not include that "scaling" function.

The two I have tried were much like this don't really know what brand something from China (without 4K): http://www.jaycar.com.au...-UHD-4K-Support/p/AC1714

I don't think they sell the ones I'm using any more. Most seem to be going through a refresh right now to support 4K, which the ones I had used do not. They are really home grade stuff to help people wire up many things to home theatre setups etc.. but they do work. You can turn 1 Vmix camera into a switchable 4 port-one-at-a-time camera. Yes they usually come with a remote :)

I had no intention of finding a sub $100 unit, so can't comment on the really cheap ones. Ultimately I just bought more capture devices, but while you are trying new camera angles out out or saving up to buy more capture devices they come in handy. You will most likely find a use for them later too if you outgrow that idea. eg on a test bench when configuring many computers without the need to 4 monitors.
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darp on 7/19/2015(UTC)
darp  
#8 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2015 2:21:14 AM(UTC)
darp

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Speegs wrote:
Just to clarify.. they don't add video delay at least no anything I have noticed. The switch adds the delay.

They add a "handshake" delay when swap from input 1 to 2 for instance that can sometimes take about 1-2 seconds.

You are plugging in a different camera/source. So the delay is all the HDMI business that goes on detecting resolutions, copy protection etc.. and finding a stable signal.

You could also find an issue if Camera 1 is not the exact resolution and frame rate of Camera 2. Unless of course you use a capture device with inbuilt scaling. So my capture device will adapt to if quickly changing from a 1080p source to a 720i source for instance (it will still send Vmix a 1080i signal if that's what I tell it to do). I'm pretty sure some do not include that "scaling" function.

The two I have tried were much like this don't really know what brand something from China (without 4K): http://www.jaycar.com.au...-UHD-4K-Support/p/AC1714

I don't think they sell the ones I'm using any more. Most seem to be going through a refresh right now to support 4K, which the ones I had used do not. They are really home grade stuff to help people wire up many things to home theatre setups etc.. but they do work. You can turn 1 Vmix camera into a switchable 4 port-one-at-a-time camera. Yes they usually come with a remote :)

I had no intention of finding a sub $100 unit, so can't comment on the really cheap ones. Ultimately I just bought more capture devices, but while you are trying new camera angles out out or saving up to buy more capture devices they come in handy. You will most likely find a use for them later too if you outgrow that idea. eg on a test bench when configuring many computers without the need to 4 monitors.


As you mentioned before an intermediary shot could be used if there is switch delay, so no one would see it. It will be here Monday. What would be nice, if there is switch delay, is it keeps playing old one until new one takes over. Very inexpensive experiment and a useful device even if does not work for this app.
darp  
#9 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2015 10:03:56 PM(UTC)
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IT WORKS DECENTLY

I got the etekcity switcher, but not a HDMI board yet. Ah but do not need PC to test. Put the output to a TV set.

The delay is 2.25 secs, it goes to black, it is smooth on both sides. The worst thing would be sound in interview. But then again that would not be going thru cam, so a non-issue.

But as 1st commenter pointed out, one can switch to something else while switch takes place.


So this is how see it. If you have 3-4 people on panel, to switch go to wide shot of all for about 3 secs, That could be a USB webcam, so live all the time and no board. Then switch and click in new isolated shot when shows in vMix. This is a very handy and cheap device and the IR remote works as well as the hard buttons, looks well made.

The PIP thing it has is just for seeing your choices (video thumbs) so not good for use in conjunction with vMix. Except if one man operation wants to check all cams before switching to one (off line). I think will get 3 input cheapo one for $8 as someone said no delay, maybe not so but worth $8 to have backup and to find out.

Cheers
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Speegs on 7/20/2015(UTC)
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