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coupe70  
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 31, 2024 3:52:34 AM(UTC)
coupe70

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Hi all,

what I will describe is happening in vMix 26.0.0, so please let me know if this no longer happening.
We are experiencing this in a "real" project, but I'll give a simple example.

Input 1: Slideshow
Input 2: Photo patched to External 2 SDI output. This can only be done with a pulldown menu showing the input NUMBERS, no name, no key (Input 2 -> External 2).

Whenever we trigger a refresh of the pictures in the slideshow, Input 1 DISAPPEARS for a split second.
Input 2 becomes Input 1 (because the slideshow disappeared), does no longer go to External 2 as it is no longer Input 2, and our SDI
output goes black. After the split second the refreshed slideshow input re-appears, takes its place as Input 1, the photo becomes
Input 2 again and re-appears on the SDI output. So with every slideshow refresh we are getting a dropout.

You can avoid this by making the slideshow the last input as only inputs behind the slideshow are affected,
but what the heck?! I would even expect the output of the slideshow staying available during refresh, but the
whole input DISAPPEARING because of a simple folder sync?!

What's your experience with this?
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mavik  
#2 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2024 6:59:59 PM(UTC)
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By slideshow you mean a ppt presentation that gets reloaded? What do you do to reload it. Just use the "change" button top right?
The way I use presentations is from a different computer that runs the NDI screen capture app. This works super fine for me.
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coupe70  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2024 10:16:15 PM(UTC)
coupe70

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No, sorry, I mean what is also referred to as "Photos" input. In the settings it's all about 'Slideshow' then.
https://www.vmix.com/help24/index.htm?Photos.html

The described behaviour occurs when you right-click and select 'refresh photos' on the input.
Same when you trigger this via html.
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nikosman88  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2024 10:27:05 PM(UTC)
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Yes i believe this is by design. When you do refresh,in order to be able in the input to check for changes in the folder,it has to disappear and load again. So when this happens,it affects the order of the other inputs and happens what you see
Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
By slideshow you mean a ppt presentation that gets reloaded? What do you do to reload it. Just use the "change" button top right?
The way I use presentations is from a different computer that runs the NDI screen capture app. This works super fine for me.

Right click-->refresh photos. Same happens when we do a reset input but i think is by design on how vmix inputs are number ordered.
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coupe70  
#5 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2024 11:47:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nikosman88 Go to Quoted Post
Yes i believe this is by design.


It's not your fault, but seriously:
What kind of limiting and dangerous design is this on a broadcast software?
The input itself drops out and causes other inputs to loose their number and even assigned output?
And all this for a quick "what's new?" folder sync?

Why is this while on the other hand a list input is super tolerant.
You can add, move, remove, shuffle its files manually or from outside and it just keeps outputting.
It can even be auto-updated from outside with a little watchfolder tool.
Unfortunately it causes other major problems when stepping through its files.
https://forums.vmix.com/posts/t32293-Renderer-drops-caused-by-API---list
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admin  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2024 12:06:38 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

The Refresh function on the Photos input was not intended to be used during the middle of a production.
It is intended for the preparation phase, as what it is doing behind the scenes is removing the input and adding it again (like the Reset function for other input types).

While adding/removing content live is generally not recommended anyway, if this is something you require then the List input has basic support for images as well.

In regards to selecting inputs for a fixed output, perhaps look at adding a dedicated Blank input for that output and assigning the Photos as a layer.
That way if the Photos input is changed, reset or removed, the output will briefly change to black instead of a different input.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
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coupe70  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2024 1:08:10 AM(UTC)
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Hi Martin,

thanks for your reply and your suggestions.

Originally Posted by: admin Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
The Refresh function on the Photos input was not intended to be used during the middle of a production.


TBH, when a function is available during production, I would expect it to work without causing negative side effects, especially on other inputs.

Originally Posted by: admin Go to Quoted Post

It is intended for the preparation phase, as what it is doing behind the scenes is removing the input and adding it again (like the Reset function for other input types).


Maybe I'm naive, but...why?
This feels like I'm hitting F5 in Chrome and the browser is closing and re-opening just to update the page.

Originally Posted by: admin Go to Quoted Post
While adding/removing content live is generally not recommended anyway, if this is something you require then the List input has basic support for images as well.


Yes, and I was wondering why the list can handle all kinds of changes without those side effects.
While it is much more flexible, other things are missing for me:
- There is no refresh functionality I can trigger via html
- It doesn't offer a slideshow function (and no transitions)
- Loop does not work on pictures
- It causes dropouts
Thanks for your response on this issue, I'll look into it, although reformatting incoming pictures would be additional hassle while Photos input
handles THIS part without problems.

Originally Posted by: admin Go to Quoted Post

In regards to selecting inputs for a fixed output, perhaps look at adding a dedicated Blank input for that output and assigning the Photos as a layer.
That way if the Photos input is changed, reset or removed, the output will briefly change to black instead of a different input.


I think you misunderstood me here.
While I was worrying why the Photos input had to completely disappear during refresh, the problem was not a different input taking the place of the Photos input
and maybe causing unwanted output. We can update the slideshow when it is not on air.
The problem is that a completely different input (for example #22) looses its output routing 'Input 22 -> External 2' when the slideshow is refreshed, because it becomes input 21 for a moment.
And THIS one is constantly on air.

I'm a bit puzzled as what I thought would be an super easy task caused so many unexpected problems including the workaround List causing
problems and neither Photos nor List delivering what I need - a (auto)updatable slideshow that does not cause negative side effects.


Rick
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admin  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2024 2:41:27 AM(UTC)
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If you need some inputs to be fixed, place them at the start of the inputs list, that way any changes done to inputs thereafter will not temporarily impact the order.
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coupe70  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2024 3:42:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: admin Go to Quoted Post
If you need some inputs to be fixed, place them at the start of the inputs list, that way any changes done to inputs thereafter will not temporarily impact the order.



Yes, that's what we've done for now - we put the Photos input to the very end.
But as soon as we have two Photos inputs, refreshing one will impact the one behind.
Not our actual use case, just saying that this still feels like a problematic behaviour.

Anyway, thanks for your input!
I will further investigate our List problems as I would prefer to use a List.
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