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tnorrell  
#1 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 6:05:27 AM(UTC)
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Hello everyone, and thank you for taking a look at my post. I'm perplexed at the moment about what options meet my needs.

I've seen posts from people on here with 8+ camera systems, so I hope I'm over thinking this, and the problem isn't as complex as I've convinced myself is.

I need a system that is able to handle 4x 3G-SDI/HDMI inputs, and 1x SDI/HDMI outputs. (4 inputs total, each set to SDI or HDMI as needed)

My initial thought was to use 4x Decklink Mini Recorder cards, and 1x Decklink Mini Monitor card. I thought that if I could just find a motherboard that supported 5 PCIe slots, I would be golden. Then I realized I need to put an NVIDIA card in there as well. That's not too bad, there are a lot of motherboards out there that support 7 PCIe slots. Then, tonight, I learned about CPU/PCI "Lanes".

After some research I found that DeckLink Mini cards require 4 lanes, and the NVIDIA 650 requires 18. (5x4=20 + 18 = 38 lanes).

After researching what "lanes" are, I found that there are only two Intel i7 packages that have 40 lanes... and both of them are $570+.

If you see a flaw in the logic so far, please let me know...

I had originally spec'ed out a i5-4690k (which I've now found out only support 16 lanes) thinking that it would be 'good enough' and cost around $230. With a $170 MoBo, 16GB RAM, 250GB SSD, case, and power supply, that system was going to cost me right at $1000 to build from scratch.

Now that I'm aware of lanes, I started to research the 40 lane CPUs.. the i7-5930k starts at $570, and I'm afraid to look at the price of the 5960x. Then, to support the x99 architecture, I need to pay about $120 more of my MoBo. In total I would push the price of the system up $600 to $1600. And that's even if the solution would work.

Now my mind is trying to wrap itself around ditching the decklink mini idea, and going with the decklink quad (which only needs 16 lanes?). Except it's $230 more expensive and doesn't offer HDMI. If I didn't have to pay extra for CPU and MoBo to support 40 lanes, I could easily justify the $230 increase in capture device... except that then I would need to pick up 4x HDMI->SDI converters, which are $300/each...

I've reached the limits of my understanding. I don't understand how much compute power it is going to require to build a system that can switch 4 inputs and has the flexibility of combining SDI and HDMI signals as needed.

I hope a few of you can help my weary mind... I thank you in advance for any feedback you may be able to provide.

tdurhamjr  
#2 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 10:00:57 AM(UTC)
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I would go with the Decklink Quad. I ran one in my old PC (i7 3770) with a GT 630 video card. Worked great. I now run 2 of them in my new PC (which is when I got familiar with cpu lanes :).

The card get VERY warm (hot). I installed a 220mm fan on the side of my old case to help keep it cool. You have inputs and outputs on the Decklink Quad card where as the mini is input only. With the Dquad cards you will have to get HDMI to SDI converters for each camera (if running HDMI cameras) which you can get for $45 each on Amazon or ebay. You could put in one Decklink Quad and one Decklink Mini and use one of the ports on your Decklink Quad to output thru. I am almost positive that you can not input/output on the same port on the Decklink quad. With 4 channels you could have 3 incoming and 1 outgoing or 2 and 2. If running 1 Quad, 1 Mini, and a Video Card, you should be in good shape with even some older systems. Just my 2 cents. Some of the more experience guys may have some further insight.
Len56  
#3 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 10:06:07 AM(UTC)
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Hi tnorrell,

Why don't you go for the Magewell XI400DE HDMI - Quad HD HDMI inputs - 4x PCIe card, many people on these forums are using this card, it has 4 HDMI inputs all on one card and you only use one PCIe input.
jmpaoli  
#4 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 10:37:53 AM(UTC)
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We build system with 12 sdi inputs with 3 decklink quad or 3 magewell card that works perfect

Jean Michel
Ittaidv  
#5 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 10:51:32 AM(UTC)
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I'm researching about this as well. The solution could be to get a motherboard with a PLX chip. This chip will in some way double the amount of lanes.

I'm not sure about this PLX chip though, since my research is not finished yet.

A great source of information for hardware is to check other manifacturers hardware.

Livestream for example is offering a super expensive solution with 17 sdi inputs (4 x decklink quad) and 1 sdi/hdmi output.

The hardwarespecs are in this pdf: http://cdn.livestream.co...stream-studio-hd1710.pdf

Processor: 3930k
Ram : 64 gb
GPU: ATI Firepro

This processor also only has 40 lanes, still they seem to manage to run 17 inputs and 1 output smoothly. I think the key factor here is not the cpu, but the motherboard. Sadly they don't mention what motherboard is used in this setup. My bet is on a PLX chip, but as i said I'm not sure about this.

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tnorrell on 12/7/2014(UTC)
Ittaidv  
#6 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 4:11:20 PM(UTC)
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Did some more research today and found out the Livestream studio HD51 uses a ASUS P9X79-E WS motherboard. The HD51 has 4 inputs and 1 output. This is very similar to what you want to build. The parts are in this pdf:

https://cdn.livestream.c...vestream-studio-hd51.pdf

CPU Intel "Sandy Bridge-E" Core i7 3930K 3.2 GHz Six-Core processor, 12MB L3 cache, 130W, Socket LGA 2011
Graphics Card Nvidia GeForce GT 520 Commercial Series PCI Express graphics card
RAM 16GB 4 total DDR3 1600 MHz RAM (non-ECC) (4GB x 4 DIMM triple-channel configuration)

The motherboard is this one : http://www.newegg.com/Pr...9-_-13-131-971-_-Product
This motherboard is equiped with a PLX chip. According to Anandtech it does this:
The P9X79-E WS uses two PLX PEX 8747 chips to increase the number of PCIe 3.0 lanes on the motherboard from 40 to 72 – if a user needed to, this motherboard will support PCI 3.0 x16/x16/x16/x16 and x16/x8/x8/x8/x16/x8/x8. (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7613/asus-p9x79e-ws-review)

The more expensive Livestream hd1710 (4x Decklink quad + decklink studio) uses this motherboard (I think): http://www.newegg.com/Pr...spx?Item=N82E16813131798
I found out the type by carefully comparing the layout of the ports and slots on the motherboards to those on Newegg, I could be wrong though. This board does not have the PLX chip, but supports 40 lanes cpu's.

Since livestream doesn't make use of hardware acceleration (GPU) and their machines are using very low budget GPU's, combining your machine with a heavy GPU might require an even better motherboard. If you look carefully at how they set up their systems though, you can see they put the graphics cards always in a x16 slot though, so that makes me assume a heavier GPU would be no problem in these boards.



I think these parts are way over your initial budget. In order to be able to stream and record in a reliable way I would not underpower your machine.

A guy over at the blackmagic forum made a HD51 clone and used these parts:

https://docs.google.com/...zLxWB0g6hQ5dUUCCbRs/edit

All together the machine costed him almost 4000 dollar, although you probably don't need all the parts he used.

This is the thread where i got the info from:

http://forum.blackmagicd...ilit=motherboard#p183495
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tnorrell on 12/7/2014(UTC)
tnorrell  
#7 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:02:34 PM(UTC)
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Wow! Amazing information. Thank you all!
Ittaidv  
#8 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:56:58 PM(UTC)
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Len56 wrote:
Hi tnorrell,

Why don't you go for the Magewell XI400DE HDMI - Quad HD HDMI inputs - 4x PCIe card, many people on these forums are using this card, it has 4 HDMI inputs all on one card and you only use one PCIe input.



How many lanes does it use? 4 lanes?
h2video.nl  
#9 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2014 7:44:16 AM(UTC)
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beside the number of actual lanes it is important to check discrete lanes too.

i have a system with 6 pcie lanes: 1 time 16 x 1time 8 x one 4x and three 1x. the problem is some lanes are shared so the 3 1x can not hold 3 bm mini cards.

this is because bm cards take up all the bandwith of a pcie lane ( i have a 6 gm/s capible mb)

you don't have that problem with a 4 input card which occupies just one pcie 16x slot.

so in order to calculate total cost of ownership look at all the options and costs.

i am currently also testing yuan cards which have 4 input cards hdmi or sdi on offer which are more affordable than bm cards. still bm offers a lot of support and are constantly updating the software drivers. the shuttles and cards are recently updated also on the hardware side, so they are more flexible.

the advantage of the mini is that i can swap cards and choose between hdmi and sdi. and they are low profile. yuan also offers 2 input cards, which are also low profile.

in short: it is a constant puzzel and the proof is in testing it out in real time ( i have constant problems with drivers after windows updates or after updating bm drivers wth multiple cards in one system...)

stefan
Ittaidv  
#10 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2014 8:40:25 AM(UTC)
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h2video.nl wrote:
beside the number of actual lanes it is important to check discrete lanes too.

i have a system with 6 pcie lanes: 1 time 16 x 1time 8 x one 4x and three 1x. the problem is some lanes are shared so the 3 1x can not hold 3 bm mini cards.

this is because bm cards take up all the bandwith of a pcie lane ( i have a 6 gm/s capible mb)

you don't have that problem with a 4 input card which occupies just one pcie 16x slot.

so in order to calculate total cost of ownership look at all the options and costs.

i am currently also testing yuan cards which have 4 input cards hdmi or sdi on offer which are more affordable than bm cards. still bm offers a lot of support and are constantly updating the software drivers. the shuttles and cards are recently updated also on the hardware side, so they are more flexible.

the advantage of the mini is that i can swap cards and choose between hdmi and sdi. and they are low profile. yuan also offers 2 input cards, which are also low profile.

in short: it is a constant puzzel and the proof is in testing it out in real time ( i have constant problems with drivers after windows updates or after updating bm drivers wth multiple cards in one system...)

stefan



I think you are mixing up lanes and slots. A motherboard can have 7 slots, of which some are 16 lanes, others 8 lanes, etc.. It's not because it looks like a 16x slot that it actually can use 16 lanes. Some motherboards have 7 16x slots, but offcourse they can't be used at 16x all together. Many boards will throttle 16x slots down to 8x once too many cards are inserted.
h2video.nl  
#11 Posted : Monday, December 15, 2014 4:22:48 PM(UTC)
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yeah lanes and slots.

what i mean is that some of the slots are shared slots. usually the 1* slots share resources and are actually one and the same. BM will take up all resources so even when you have 3 slots available you can not put 3 bm cards in these 1* pcie slots.

same with other slots, sometimes they are shared and you have one 16 and one 8 that can also be 2 8* slots...
hope i have used the correct defenitions here now..

stefan
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Ittaidv on 12/17/2014(UTC)
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