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richardgatarski  
#1 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 11:00:45 AM(UTC)
richardgatarski

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I am researhing into various ways to send vMix Output to another location over public internet for further processing. Need pretty good quality and minimal latency. Skype/Skype TX is not the kind of solution I am looking for.

Instead I am leaning towards Zixi ("Zixi is the on-ramp for high-quality video on the Internet and on unmanaged Internet Protocol (IP) networks"), which would require a Teradek cubelet (Cube encoder plus decoder), as for example demonstrated by Studiotech live! #90, see http://youtu.be/A6obTuaEGTA?t=31m32s.

Warning, I have just started digging into this so, beware of misunderstandings.
In a typical Zixi scenario:

1. Zixi Feeder (eg a PC app) takes encoded output in almost any format, wraps it in Zixi’s proven UDP-based protocol and transmits it to Zixi Broadcaster

2. Zixi Broadcaster, running in the cloud or on a customer’s premises connects to both Zixi Feeder and Zixi Receiver

3. Zixi Receiver(eg a PC app) “completes” a Zixi stream by accepting input from Zixi Broadcaster and delivering it to decoders and integrated receiver-decoders (IRDs).

Teradek Cubelets (USD 3.000) and Zixi (USD 1.000 license) can be used for point-to-point (as Studiotech Live! do). I do not know how much Zixi charges for their services if you don't use Cubes.

While researching I noticed that Wirecast is compatible with sending to Zixi. Ie eliminate Cube encoder and Zixi feeder. I cant find any information if this also means that a Cube decoder is enough for point-to-point reception. But I guess one would still need Zixi Reader.

So, back to this topics question. Do you think that vMix being Zixi compatible would be a good idea? Ideally of course both as a feeder (eg Zixi as Streamer) and as a receiver (eg Zixi Input).

And please consider that Martin is pretty busy. And Zixi is far from a low cost solution. That's why I started this as a General discussion and not a Feature request. Thanks.

Maximus  
#2 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 2:51:03 PM(UTC)
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Hi Richard,
I use Zixi for all my broadcast. PM me if you want to discuss further.

Maxi
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richardgatarski on 10/31/2014(UTC)
tdurhamjr  
#3 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 3:21:14 PM(UTC)
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Richard,
One thing that I am trying to accomplish is to have several shoulder mount cameras at a sporting event. I have used the Nyrius Wireless Pro HDMI (wireless transmitter) with some success with a camera mounted high on a tripod. The main requirement is that there must be a unobstructed line of sight with a limit of about 50-75 yards. But let a twig get in the way and the picture is interupted. There are some "long range" (as in 1/2 mile) long range HDMI transmitters available on Alibaba Express but they are around $3000 - $4000 USD. And I have no idea how well they work.

The nice thing about the Nyrius HDMI Transmitter is that it is pretty cheap and I can hook up a portable USB power pack to it to power the transmitter. I would love to find a more stable longer range solution (at least 500 feet) with some obstruction ok) for handheld cameras to transmit a feed. Then we can have shoulder mounted cameras around the field for good ground level up close coverage as well as press box cameras.

Not sure if this Zixi can be used somehow to accomplish that. It seems that just getting something like this http://www.bhphotovideo....be_255_HDMI_Encoder.html and send it straight to vMix might work. This is right at $1500.

Tim
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anuchris on 4/7/2019(UTC)
richardgatarski  
#4 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 4:46:14 PM(UTC)
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Tim,
In your case a Cube Encoder, together with a good WiFi spectrum and fast network switcher would probably work. (I have an older model that performs pretty good). But that won't hold up over public internet.
Speegs  
#5 Posted : Friday, November 7, 2014 8:46:53 AM(UTC)
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richardgatarski wrote:

While researching I noticed that Wirecast is compatible with sending to Zixi. Ie eliminate Cube encoder and Zixi feeder. I cant find any information if this also means that a Cube decoder is enough for point-to-point reception. But I guess one would still need Zixi Reader.

So, back to this topics question. Do you think that vMix being Zixi compatible would be a good idea? Ideally of course both as a feeder (eg Zixi as Streamer) and as a receiver (eg Zixi Input).

And please consider that Martin is pretty busy. And Zixi is far from a low cost solution. That's why I started this as a General discussion and not a Feature request. Thanks.


I'm also interested Richard and Max.

Let me know what you find if Zixi requires a software license. Wondering why the software couldn't be used to encode instead of FMLE or in additon FMLE if you still want to send to Youtube for high latency etc..

At the moment lowest latecy I can get is Vmix --> Encoder (FMLE currently) --> Wowza Server 10ms away in a data center (low latency tuned) --> User running JWPlayer.

Best possible is about 1 second with 0 buffer on JWPlayer in RTMP (Flash) mode.

Typically its more like 2 seconds as 0 buffer = crap video playback. So a small buffer does make the experience better.

In HTML5 Video playback blows out 5+ seconds due to it's buffering.

Anyone with any hints on how to get video to the masses (or even a single "special" site with a Zixi license), I'm pretty keen to learn how it works and what to buy (that works).

Approximately $4.5k AUD for a pair of cubes (with Zixi) seems like the only improvement I've seen available. That appears to be point to point only just like Studio Tech have shown on many occasions. Unfortunately I don't have anyone willing to lend me a pair to test them out for myself before I buy either. With the exception of Vmix, Wowza and Magewell gear (great works as I expected), I seem to have purchased some stuff that doesn't quite live up to the marketing hype. So would rather learn from someone else's expensive lessons if they are willing to share.
mp  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:34:40 AM(UTC)
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Didn't want to open a new topic ... maybe a stupud question, anyway has Zixi licence to be paid once a year, or is it for good?
richardgatarski  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 13, 2016 12:12:50 PM(UTC)
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As I remember it Zixi charges per year.
mp  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 13, 2016 12:15:14 PM(UTC)
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richardgatarski wrote:
As I remember it Zixi charges per year.


Huh, I wrote to a resseler, the answer was:
This is an unlock for the codec, not a rental agreement so you will only be charged once.


Well, yes I am confused :)
richardgatarski  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:57:16 PM(UTC)
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Seems like a bad memory, from http://teradek.com/products/zixi (fist hit googling "zixi price"): "One-time purchase; no recurring fees."

Also states "Up to 3Mbps Maximum with Zixi enabled."
mp  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 13, 2016 3:08:46 PM(UTC)
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richardgatarski wrote:
Seems like a bad memory, from http://teradek.com/products/zixi (fist hit googling "zixi price"): "One-time purchase; no recurring fees."

Also states "Up to 3Mbps Maximum with Zixi enabled."



All true, I was mislead by this
(http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/HDTV/brochure/ProHD2014_report.pdf)

If two or more cameras are streaming at the same time, then each camera require a separate decoder back at TV station, each with unique IP adress, to provide multiple HD-SDI concurrent outputs. Operating cost is the 4G-LTE data use plus the annual license fee (currently 1000 dollar) to enable Teradek Decoder for Zixi operation.
mp  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 13, 2016 3:37:31 PM(UTC)
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Ok, ok, ok, so A LOT OF CONFUSION :D

Michael (Teradek Help Center)
Jan 12, 11:29

Hi Marko,

The Zixi license for Cube is an annual cost of $1000.
Please contact Zixi if you have further questions.

Regards,

Michael


AND


Michael (Teradek Help Center)
Jan 12, 11:43

Hi Marko,

Sorry for the confusion. It looks like there was a clarification and that recently changed on our site.

It is a one time purchase of $1000, no recurring costs.

Regards,

Michael
richardgatarski  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 13, 2016 5:04:36 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

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haha! So I guess my memory was right, and things have changed.
I guess the bitrate cap came with the change...
mp  
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:33:42 AM(UTC)
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Well, let me share my experience.

Last year I was doing a production for a local TV. They had a Teradek Cubelet (without Zixi). We were doing 3 futsal matches, HD 1920x1080 outputed via HDMI to TEradek, downscaled to SD on Teradek, 5mbps bitrate.

Now I am buying only Teradek encoder with Zixi, because the TV I am gonna work with has a decoder with Zixi, so for now I don't need a decoder.

Isn't 3mbps (Zixi limit, as we have discovered) a little low for a HD TV production?
Speegs  
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:48:49 PM(UTC)
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What latency do you need to get? I've done an auction in two places at once without Zixi. Zixi seems over priced and well too complex to me.

I just wanted H.264 encoder at @ A.. to H.264 decoder @ B. Latency of < 500ms happy days. PM if you want more detail. All using RTMP no special protocols or licenses.

I was interested in Zixi, but no longer :)
richardgatarski  
#15 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2016 4:29:46 AM(UTC)
richardgatarski

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A few weeks after I started this topic I bought a Teradek Cubelet and did som testing over the public internet. Worked pretty well, with sub second latency. I also realized that it was sufficient with a Cube Encoder, as vMix can decode (tried a couple of protocols). Not a high prio project for us, but currently our conclusion is that we might actually not need Zixi.

Of course, this might depend on the quality of the connection you get. Depending on where you send and receive.

I think 3 Mbps is pretty OK for 720p, and typically good enough for 1080p. Although broadcasting requirements might of course demand better quality, meaning higher bitrate.
mp  
#16 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2016 4:53:08 AM(UTC)
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Speegs wrote:
What latency do you need to get? I've done an auction in two places at once without Zixi. Zixi seems over priced and well too complex to me.

I just wanted H.264 encoder at @ A.. to H.264 decoder @ B. Latency of < 500ms happy days. PM if you want more detail. All using RTMP no special protocols or licenses.

I was interested in Zixi, but no longer :)



In my case, there were 2 reasons for Zixi:
1. It is cheaper - As I mentoioned TV station I am working with, has a decoder with Zixi license, so I don't need a Teradek decoder (Zixi 1000 $ vs. Teradek decoder more or less around 1500 $)

2. reliability First time I was working with Teradek (encoder + decoder) we were working in SD, 5 mbps over public internet 20/20. We, (ok they have, I was just a produciotn guy :)) experienced dropped frames, occasionally blacks and picture freezing. Hey, but again it was no so bad, anyway I would like to avoid this, and with Zixi I probably will, hope so.
anuchris  
#17 Posted : Sunday, April 7, 2019 5:16:56 PM(UTC)
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Hi, please can you help? I need help setting up my Vmix to output to Zixi. Please can you help? I use Vmix Pro, 4k.
Thanks

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