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Maximum NDI HD inputs supported on a VMIX system - Limit NDI inputs
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Xavi137  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, March 9, 2022 7:53:29 PM(UTC)
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Greetings again

How many maximum NDI entries can an NDI system support?

In the official reference systems a maximum of 8 NDI HD or 4 NDI 4K is indicated. But if you have a top-of-the-range processor RTX 3090, x299 motherboard, 64 GB RAM and, above all, a 10 Gbps network, is it still the case?
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IceStream  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 9, 2022 9:07:53 PM(UTC)
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@ Xavi,

The "unofficial" rule of thumb is one 1080p NDI source per core (@ 3.0+ GHz) before things start to potentially get dicey.


Ice
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thanks 2 users thanked IceStream for this useful post.
Xavi137 on 3/9/2022(UTC), sinc747 on 3/24/2022(UTC)
Xavi137  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 9, 2022 10:28:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IceStream Go to Quoted Post
@ Xavi,

The "unofficial" rule of thumb is one 1080p NDI source per core (@ 3.0+ GHz) before things start to potentially get dicey.


Ice


Core?, no Threads?

Only NDI in or adding also NDI outs?


Thanks
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mavik  
#4 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2022 6:43:35 AM(UTC)
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And take a look at the network. Full NDI is about 120-150 mbit each. 8 Full NDI won't work on a 1G network. And by default NDI is unicast. Each instance produces bandwidth.
To get the max out of NDI I recommend using multicast and a 10G network.
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mgrayeb  
#5 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2022 7:54:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IceStream Go to Quoted Post
@ Xavi,

The "unofficial" rule of thumb is one 1080p NDI source per core (@ 3.0+ GHz) before things start to potentially get dicey.


Ice


Does that apply to NDI-HX sources or only full NDI sources? I know NDI-HX sources use significantly less local network bandwidth but am unclear on whether they are also less taxing on CPU/GPU/other system resources.

Thanks.
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mavik  
#6 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2022 8:15:49 AM(UTC)
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NDI HX is obviously compressed and needs more resources to be decoded. It's the nature of things. The more effort you put into the encoding to reduce the bandwidth (HEVC as another example) the more effort you have to put into the decoding.
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giroudf  
#7 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2022 8:57:15 AM(UTC)
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NDI-HX is "fake" NDI.
It is an mpeg stream (like any other IP camera) that is turned to an NDI protocol at the drivers level (in the PC).
There are some benefits to do that (you do not require high priced NDI encoder and you use low bandwidth) but there is also some drawback
(like it is not NDI end to end, and encoding /decoding introduce severe lag, compared to real NDI, in to video).
if you plan to use NDI, stay away form NDI-HX and purchase real NDI encoder.
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Xavi137  
#8 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2022 9:12:45 AM(UTC)
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Thanks to the answers. I think it's a little clearer now.

Just knowing if the outlets count as a busy core. But I suppose it must be easier to encode than to decode.

Another question. In the high-end reference equipment the following are mentioned:

24 input cameras HD

8 NDI inputs HD


So, in total 32 entries? Or not, the maximum is 24 added external input sources of all kinds, be it SDI, HDMI, NDI, NDI|HX...



I suppose there comes a time where the PCIE 3.0 x16 of the graphics card has to be saturated.



32 HD 3G inputs are 96 Gbps.

A PCIE 3.0 x16 is 126 Gbps

That must collapse, yes or yes
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Xavi137  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2022 7:19:59 AM(UTC)
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Tests today.

With z590 Aorus Master board + i7-11700K + 3060 12 GB + 32 RAM + DeckLink Quad 2 + DeckLink Duo 2. In total 12 SDI IN + 2.5 GB Ethernet network.

Seven NDI as outs in system (four VMIX out, three NDI capture screen)

With project at 1080 50i. Up to 16 inputs maintains 50 fps. 12 SDI and 4 NDI with 19% Total system throughput as reported by vMix. No effect, no external activated.

With project at 4K 50p. Up to 12 inputs. 11 SDI and one NDI while maintaining 50 fps. Also total yield of 19% vMix. A more input Total system 20% lowers fps to 49. Also 7 outputs NDI activated
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aaron804  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2022 2:47:24 PM(UTC)
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Would you be so kind as to run a test with just NDI inputs and see where it maxes out for you?

NDI|hx definitely requires more horsepower, I wish I never bought hx cameras. Just built a brand new system and still can't do more than 4 if any of them are HX.

Originally Posted by: Xavi137 Go to Quoted Post
Tests today.

With z590 Aorus Master board + i7-11700K + 3060 12 GB + 32 RAM + DeckLink Quad 2 + DeckLink Duo 2. In total 12 SDI IN + 2.5 GB Ethernet network.

Seven NDI as outs in system (four VMIX out, three NDI capture screen)

With project at 1080 50i. Up to 16 inputs maintains 50 fps. 12 SDI and 4 NDI with 19% Total system throughput as reported by vMix. No effect, no external activated.

With project at 4K 50p. Up to 12 inputs. 11 SDI and one NDI while maintaining 50 fps. Also total yield of 19% vMix. A more input Total system 20% lowers fps to 49. Also 7 outputs NDI activated
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mjgraves  
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 24, 2022 4:26:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
And take a look at the network. Full NDI is about 120-150 mbit each. 8 Full NDI won't work on a 1G network. And by default NDI is unicast. Each instance produces bandwidth.
To get the max out of NDI I recommend using multicast and a 10G network.


Don't disagree. However, you can accomplish a lot without resorting to the cost of a 10G network.

I've had projects where using two 1G links to the vMix host was enough to make it work really well.

There are also more affordable 2.5G and 5G network options.

Of course, 10G would be best for _maximum_ flexibility.
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