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Performance with Teams NDI inputs
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/30/2021(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Edinburgh
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First post here, and this isn't so much a question, nor bragging rights, but I was running some tests of NDI out from a Teams meeting and bringing it into vMix. The background on this, is that I've run three live events now using vMix call and had some complaints about the latency supposedly making it unworkable. The vMix support team were great at responding and confirming what I suspect which is that the issue is probably with remote individual's network connections. I've tried reasoning with the event organiser i.e. use pre-recorded bits where possible (and there's zero interaction), don't use a vMix slot JUST for the chat function, don't have 8 vMix Callers if it's not needed (reiterating last two points), and actually arrange testing rather than just claim it's inconvenient. The solution according to them is to use Zoom Webinars!?!? On the one hand I want them to realise that individuals network problems will not be not be resolved by paying a 700+GBP subscription, when it provides less real-time data and control over content... So, whilst it's less than ideal I thought I would try and give them the "video call" experience of using Teams (which this department are already not fans of) and bring the inputs into vMix. The hope being guests can easily login via web browser still, have a private chat, and see a feed of what the audience will see i.e. my camera. I've got a HP Create G7 with i9, 32GB ram, RTX2070 Max-Q, and 500Mbps fibre up/down, so should handle most things. This is what I was doing and the results: - 5x NDI Teams inputs (then added 6th active speaker which didn't affect things)
- 1x NDI screen share from laptop on wired network
- 1x local capture (added second local window capture)
- 5x virtual sets (9, 6, 4, 3, and 2 window layouts)
- 1x title overlay
- Recording MP4 @ 1080p, 8Mbps
- Streaming YouTube @ 1080p, 6Mbps
- External output for Teams return feed
- CPU 24 - 35% @ 3.5 - 4.23Ghz
- Memory 12.4GB available
- GPU0 (Intel UHD) 14 - 40%
- GPU1 (NVIDIA GeForce) 30 - 37%
- Ethernet S:3.8 - 7.4Mbps R:2.2Mbps
- vMix Render Time 8-13ms
- vMix GPU memory 6%
- vMix CPU 4%
- vMix Total 11-15%
- approx 3.69 seconds from vMix to YouTube (ultra low latency)
I will of course try to encourage the next event (having gone from large panel discussion previously to two person interview) to use vMix call but force peer to peer connections, and insist on testing (or I won't run the event full-stop). But this seems to not be too taxing on the laptop - just need to check the local and YouTube recordings next. Any thoughts appreciated - including anything I've obviously overlooked.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC) Posts: 1,838 Location: Stockholm
Thanks: 144 times Was thanked: 297 time(s) in 250 post(s)
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Thx for sharing!
I assume your bitrates are for one Teams member at a time over NDI.
For us, one big point with vMix Call is that we get ISO audio, and are able to talk back inividually with each guest speaker. For that, with Teams or Zoom, you need to have a single meeting for each one...
We ALWAYS test and advice/coach each remote speaker individually in advance, and charge our client for that.
Side note, I suspect that with a couple of cameras and 6+ Calls or NDI feeds in 1080p60 the PCIe bus gets overloaded. At least our PCs get occasional frame drops in the recording unless we lower to 25p. (GPU, CPU, render time, and temps well below limits.)
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Rank: Newbie
Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/30/2021(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Edinburgh
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The Teams client was running on the my workstation laptop, so I assume that's why the only network traffic was from the second laptop which would normally run the PowerPoint but in this case was only sharing a static web page.
To add further context, I work for a museum of art and have transitioned from live events in a modest sized lecture theatre to streaming. There are two distinct internal clients, one for an exhibition which we are heavily pushing online content - this has a working group including a member of our corporate Events team (who just happens to moonlight doing AV related events) plus members of the Digital team. So far only one event has been done but another three are planned with motion picture SFX crew in LA, actors in London, and finally some comedians also based in UK. Technical tests are two weeks before broadcast at a time that suits the individuals (more challenging for the international one), with dress rehearsal one week before at the exact time of the broadcast. Content confirmed in advance, along with introduction scripts and running orders - yay!
The other internal client is our Education team, who consists of one person who used to organise regular lectures which still often had little / no information or last minute media to try and fix within presentations. According to them, academics are to busy to spare time to do technical tests, only a dress rehearsal and just the other day I spent most of a meeting arguing that one is not the same as the other especially as I have to juggle the inevitable technical problems and unfamiliarity with vMix Call ALONG with trying to establish a what's happening with running order. We had a panel discussion where we went from 3 guests (the other team), to 8 guests including the organiser who actually didn't appear on screen. I also tried to make the two poetry readings pre-recorded but this was refused even though there was no interaction with the actor. Apparently the delay in return audio was so bad that people were threatening to drop out the event, but I was only told this over a month later.
The second event was also the Education team but to be fair to them it was for a third party really. Dress rehearsal got pushed back several times until it was the morning of the event, and when one guest had internet issues the apparent solution was to travel somewhere else for the broadcast completely untested. Another person complained about issues joining vMix call even though my calendar invite has the unique direct URL next to each persons name, plus the code if they need to use the advanced web portal - obviously what happened was they clicked on the wrong persons name which was apparently my fault. Despite everyone thanking me for the assistance, according to my colleague in Education it was still problematic - though in my POV it's what the audience see that matters, not individuals egos.
It's this Education person that wants Zoom Webinar instead of vMix streaming to YouTube, and in all honestly I'd like them to do it and see how it works out for them if someone has network problems etc. But at the same time I don't want the reputation of my workplace damaged if things go wrong.
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