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thomas  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2014 6:22:03 AM(UTC)
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Hi vMixers!

I am using multiple decklink quads, and so far it seems to work fairly well. But I can not seem to find a guide for the vest way to handle interlaced and convert it to progressive. We are going to use vMix next week, and the setting is 6 HD-SDI 1080i50 inputs and multiple VBs on the fly within the two hours we are streaming. The VBs are 1080p25. Therefore I would prefer a throughput for the signal (all the sources have the same framerate and resolution).

Admin, could you quick tell me the best way to convert 1080i50 to 25p for streaming and external output?

Best regards
Thomas :)
Thremir  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2014 7:31:32 AM(UTC)
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thomas wrote:
Hi vMixers!

I am using multiple decklink quads, and so far it seems to work fairly well. But I can not seem to find a guide for the vest way to handle interlaced and convert it to progressive. We are going to use vMix next week, and the setting is 6 HD-SDI 1080i50 inputs and multiple VBs on the fly within the two hours we are streaming. The VBs are 1080p25. Therefore I would prefer a throughput for the signal (all the sources have the same framerate and resolution).

Admin, could you quick tell me the best way to convert 1080i50 to 25p for streaming and external output?

Best regards
Thomas :)


Have you tried to add the inputs as 1080p25 in the input selector? Shouldn't be much harder.

If the image gets distorted you might want to try the WDM Capture rather than the Decklink Video Capture if you set the correct settings in the BlackMagic Control Panel.

(And of course set the vMix outputs ("Master Framerate" and External outputs) to 1080p25.)


Cheers,
Håvard Njåstad
Njastad.com
thomas  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2014 9:50:10 AM(UTC)
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That would definitely be the optimal solution, Håvard.

Unfortunately Decklink Quad does not support 1080p25 as input source. Only broadcast-standards. That`s why I have used 1080i50, and outputted 1080i50 to decklink as external output #1 and 1080p25 as virtual output to FMLE.

I can`t use 1080i50 interlaced-throughput with vMix since I then have to choose 50p as standard framerate instead of 25p. That causes the virtual output to 50p to FMLE, which my CDN does not support.

That`s why I`d love to know what way would be the optimal solution to handle this setting.


Quote:
Have you tried to add the inputs as 1080p25 in the input selector? Shouldn't be much harder.

If the image gets distorted you might want to try the WDM Capture rather than the Decklink Video Capture if you set the correct settings in the BlackMagic Control Panel.

(And of course set the vMix outputs ("Master Framerate" and External outputs) to 1080p25.)


Cheers,
Håvard Njåstad
Njastad.com

admin  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2014 10:06:27 AM(UTC)
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Select 1080 50i for the capture source and set deinterlacing to Blend.
This will ensure the video is converted to 1080 25p suitable for use with streaming.
thanks 1 user thanked admin for this useful post.
thomas on 9/3/2014(UTC)
thomas  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2014 10:36:41 AM(UTC)
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Thank you so much for the input, Martin/Admin :)

BUT.. There is a slight catch here..

I also need to output the 1080i50 to SDI to our broadcast-station. Can i set output #1 to 1080i50 SDI and output #2 as virtual camera 1080p25? Will that create some unstability for the software and will the #1 output be native 1080i50?

There has been a couple of black-screens when I have done so and pushed the external output AND the stream-button afterwards. Thought that may have caused the instability...?

admin wrote:
Select 1080 50i for the capture source and set deinterlacing to Blend.
This will ensure the video is converted to 1080 25p suitable for use with streaming.

admin  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:14:01 PM(UTC)
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In that case, it might be worth trying out the new vMix 14 preview.
http://forums.vmix.com.a....aspx?g=posts&t=2656

You can select 1080 50i for the input and set 1080 50i also as the Master Frame Rate in Settings -> Display.
Then you can select the same for the decklink output to ensure interlaced from input to output and also select 25p for streaming
which will use the first field from each frame.
thomas  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:15:19 AM(UTC)
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Once again, thank you for the feedback.

But is Preview 14 stable enough? We are doing a pretty big livestream next friday (both live on the web, and probably national broadcast), and I need to be certain that the preview will be stable enough for us to use.

I am thrilled about vMix, and i love the flexibility. But have experienced some hiccups. Especially with interlaced feed. But that can also be that I have multiple decklink quad-cards.

admin wrote:
In that case, it might be worth trying out the new vMix 14 preview.
http://forums.vmix.com.a....aspx?g=posts&t=2656

You can select 1080 50i for the input and set 1080 50i also as the Master Frame Rate in Settings -> Display.
Then you can select the same for the decklink output to ensure interlaced from input to output and also select 25p for streaming
which will use the first field from each frame.

thomas  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:14:37 PM(UTC)
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I've downloaded and recently tried vMix preview 14. It does seem to handle interlaced a lot better, but for me it seems like it somehow has introduced some sort of motion blur?

And I'm having a huge problem with the stability: when I set output to virtual (720p25) and external (1080i50) and hit the external button, my system freezes and the screen goes blank.. I have to do a reset and start over again. Sometimes it works, usually it fails. When it does not fail asap, it seems like the render time irregulary shoots to the roof and goes back to normal again.

Any thoughts about that? I have five 1080i50 sources as input and five videofiles and a titler. This is a bit frightning since i have a huge stream-production this friday.

I've also noticed that when I open a windows-window the render shoots through the roof, also if I change the position of that window. I also get framedrops..

I've also tried the same setup in Wirecast, and it seems to work fine there.

The rig:
2x decklink quad
Nvidia 780 GTI
i7-4930k
16 GB RAM
1 main SSD 256
2x SSD in RAID as secondary
admin  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:29:36 PM(UTC)
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If you select 1080i50 in the vMix Settings under the Display tab there will not be any motion blur as it will be processed as interlaced,
so the first step will be to double check the frame rate there.

As for the freezing issue, it looks like the graphics card might be playing up.
Some things to check:

1. Install the latest graphics card drivers
2. Double check how the displays are connected to the computer. They will need to be connected directly to the graphics card
and not to the motherboard display connectors.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
thomas  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:37:44 PM(UTC)
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Yup, the display tab shows 1080i50, perhaps it is just me. I'll doublecheck the quality tomorrow.

Once again, thank you for the quick feedback. I'll try to replace the graphic-card tomorrow too. I have installed the latest drivers and the displays are directly connected to the graphic card.

Can it be that I have different output from virtual and external? Do you have any other tips I might try? I had the same problem in vMix 13. It may be HW-Related but I really doubt it since it works in wirecast.

admin wrote:
If you select 1080i50 in the vMix Settings under the Display tab there will not be any motion blur as it will be processed as interlaced,
so the first step will be to double check the frame rate there.

As for the freezing issue, it looks like the graphics card might be playing up.
Some things to check:

1. Install the latest graphics card drivers
2. Double check how the displays are connected to the computer. They will need to be connected directly to the graphics card
and not to the motherboard display connectors.

Regards,

Martin
vMix

admin  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 2:45:23 PM(UTC)
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If the whole screen is shutting off then it definitely points to a hardware issue of some kind.
If it were vMix related, then you would only be seeing issues with the vMix window with the rest of windows running normally.

vMix does everything on the graphics card whereas Wirecast is very limited in what it does on the GPU, so probably
not possible to do a 1:1 comparison there.



admin  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 2:50:29 PM(UTC)
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One thing to check, have you tried playing any games recently on that machine without issue?

The idea is to try taxing the card in other applications to see if it fails there also, maybe the power supply
is not providing enough power for the 780 GTX since it can be very power hungry.

The second thing to try is to disable the onboard graphics in the BIOS just to be sure that is not causing problems.
thomas  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 3:37:12 PM(UTC)
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Hehe, funny you said.

I ran Battlefield 4 in ultra quality right after I build the machine. Great way to benchmark the system. I'll give it another shot. But its just so weird, the machine acts perfect in every way, but as soon I enable external output and open up FMLE the trouble begins. Such a shame, cause i really enjoy producing in vMix.

Dont think i have integrated graphics, its a p9x79 ew-s mainboard.

Ive also added special priorities for vMix in the nvidia control panel. I have a 660 TI graphics available, will try that one too tomorrow.

Perhaps it is troublesome with 2x decklink, any experiences with that, Martin? Or do you have any other recommendations for 8x HD-SDI?

Thanks for all the inputs so far. Appreciate it :)


admin wrote:
One thing to check, have you tried playing any games recently on that machine without issue?

The idea is to try taxing the card in other applications to see if it fails there also, maybe the power supply
is not providing enough power for the 780 GTX since it can be very power hungry.

The second thing to try is to disable the onboard graphics in the BIOS just to be sure that is not causing problems.

admin  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 3:56:42 PM(UTC)
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Did you set the nvidia settings for vMix after the issue showed up or before? Generally the nvidia settings
are optimised for gaming so best left at default for vMix.

Have you tried turning on external with no inputs added? Maybe the decklink cards are causing a conflict somewhere.

I just ran a test using 1080i50 inputs, and 1080i50 + 720p25 on the external output to confirm it is all working correctly.
That was on a laptop with Windows 8.1 and a Geforce 765M, render time under 10ms.
thomas  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:04:42 PM(UTC)
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After, i also tried to get the cpu to prioritize vmix before everything else. That didnt help either.

Good point, the more i think about it, the more i fear it is the bmd quads.. Also have an older machine with i7 3930k, will try the decklinks and vmix 14 on that one to with the same settings.


admin wrote:
Did you set the nvidia settings for vMix after the issue showed up or before? Generally the nvidia settings
are optimised for gaming so best left at default for vMix.

Have you tried turning on external with no inputs added? Maybe the decklink cards are causing a conflict somewhere.

I just ran a test using 1080i50 inputs, and 1080i50 + 720p25 on the external output to confirm it is all working correctly.
That was on a laptop with Windows 8.1 and a Geforce 765M, render time under 10ms.

thomas  
#16 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:02:57 AM(UTC)
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Ok, so i have tried different setups today. Still having the freezing, and screen blacks out when I set external out, both virtual and SDI and then open FMLE.

I have:
Changed graphics card from 780 TI to 660 TI - still freezes and screen goes blank
Opened up vMix without adding BMD decklink inputs - same result
Removed one decklink quad (then the system stutters at startup, and vMix jumps really high in rendertime, and videofiles stutters)

So I removed the decklink cards and installed them in another computer, with almost similar specs as the one that freezes.

And guess what, it works like a charm. And the render time stays low, almost all the time. No framedrops on external out, no stuttering, freezing or anything else troublesome.

This makes me wonder, either it is the windows 7 installation (a strict enterprise installation with a lot of restrictments), the mainboard OR the PSU.

Any thoughts, anyone?

This friday I am going to do a national broadcast with the system, so i`m a bit nervous at the moment..

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