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Soapm  
#1 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2020 10:27:41 AM(UTC)
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How do I change the audio format to something other than AAC?

We're trying to stream our church services to youtube, and AAC, being the souped up version of mp3 that it is, is stripping the high's and low's as part of it's compression algorithm. I like bass so would prefer another codec like ac3.

How can I make the streaming audio format ac3 or anything but AAC/MP3?
LouKohley  
#2 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2020 3:11:10 PM(UTC)
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Mp3 and AAC do not add any high pass filter or low pass filters. Uncompressed does sound better but its slight and streaming will probably do way worse compared to anything a compression algorithm will do.

That said, what platform are you streaming to?

LOU
Soapm  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 8:25:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LouKohley Go to Quoted Post
Mp3 and AAC do not add any high pass filter or low pass filters. Uncompressed does sound better but its slight and streaming will probably do way worse compared to anything a compression algorithm will do.

That said, what platform are you streaming to?

LOU


Youtube and facebook...

The first thing mp3 does is remove the highs and lows with the assumption most listeners won't notice. That's why true audio files won't mess with it. I like bass and want my lows to remain in tact so I try to stay away from it also. I prefer flac or AC3.
LouKohley  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 8:46:51 AM(UTC)
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I get it. To each their own.

What does mp3do to the audio exactly? Does it apply some audio filter before it is encoded?

I also collect uncompressed music for listening. But that’s a controlled system that I can keep it from being compromised.
I find the convenience a fine trade off for anywhere else. Others don’t.

I imagine the technology will catchup and we will be able to get uncompressed audio in a few years.

I’m still learning about livestreaming, like everyone else these days. Is it known how facebook and youtube encode the audio?
I imagine that’s the 128 aac you were referring to.

LOU
Soapm  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:14:41 PM(UTC)
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So does anyone know how to change where we can use a different audio encoding codec like either flac or ac3?

We want something that's loseless and not lossy.
DWAM  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 6:03:50 PM(UTC)
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Before asking for such things, you'd better check what codec are supported by the most common streaming platforms... If you do this, you will realize that your request is irrelevant.

Audio quality is a matter of many things in the workflow from the mics to the final compression process. If your audio does not sound good, it's probably cause you don't use appropriate equipments for the quality you expect. Moreover, vMix supports VST3 plugins which can help improving the way your production sounds. Anyway the first thing to do is increasing your audio bitrate for streaming and recording up to 192Kbits or even more if you're still not satisfied. But if you feel like you need more, the problem is your equipments, not the codec.
thanks 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
eduardocfs on 6/12/2020(UTC)
elvis55  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 6:27:51 PM(UTC)
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Soapm  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 10, 2020 3:35:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Before asking for such things, you'd better check what codec are supported by the most common streaming platforms... If you do this, you will realize that your request is irrelevant.

Audio quality is a matter of many things in the workflow from the mics to the final compression process. If your audio does not sound good, it's probably cause you don't use appropriate equipments for the quality you expect. Moreover, vMix supports VST3 plugins which can help improving the way your production sounds. Anyway the first thing to do is increasing your audio bitrate for streaming and recording up to 192Kbits or even more if you're still not satisfied. But if you feel like you need more, the problem is your equipments, not the codec.


Thanks, earlier today I bumped up the bitrate to 256 but will lower it to 192 since I see that's a waste. I was waiting until Sunday to see what difference that made. I also found playing with the input/output equalizers in vMix helps some, but you can't adjust it too much since it's not that many bands. I raised the last three sliders two notches and can hear C on the organ bass pedals some better, but the lower F tone doesn't come through unless I really crank them up but then it's a muddy sound... I also start getting feedback from where the laptop feeds back into the mixer for playing in-house audio from vMix (audio tracks...)

We use a Lenovo laptop, could the sound card be the limitation? I know I have great sound going into the laptop but I have trouble tracing it through the streaming software. I haven't quite figured out the input/output headphone settings or determined how the sound card plays into this.

I will look into this VST3...

Thanks again

Originally Posted by: elvis55 Go to Quoted Post


Is your question reversed, though ac3 is lossy it doesn't start with removing the highs and lows so sounds better to me. I love war movies and it's noticeable in the woofer to hear the bombs compressed with ac3 vs aac.

Soapm  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 10, 2020 4:24:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: elvis55 Go to Quoted Post



Thanks for the good read, I do have old Dolby equipment and didn't realize that's why ac3 sounds better to me. I guess I'll have to come to this century one day ROFL... Thanks for the great read.
DWAM  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, June 10, 2020 9:09:08 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
could the sound card be the limitation?

Yes but I think your main problem - since I know now what is your concern, the organ - is most likely the microphone. Capturing audio is an art and it requires good equipments but also a perfect positioning in the space for such an instrument. It's very difficult to capture the whole range of frequencies because not all mics can do it at first and depending on the mic type (omni, cardio, etc...) its position, its distance from the instrument might affect drastically its capacity to "hear" and deliver the whole spectrum. Environnement is also very important... How large is the room, is there natural reverb, how high is the roof ?
We won't solve your issue in the forum, it requires to be in the room and maybe it requires the help of a good audio engineer, but I'm just trying to explain that even with the best microphone and the best soundcard you can get a crappy sound from the organ if the microphone(s) is not at the right place. It's way more difficult than just having a microphone for a person speaking. If the mic is directional or not, its position will differ and impacts a lot on the capture quality. If it's too close maybe it will pick only the medium frequencies (explaining why you don't get low frequencies right), if it's too far it will pick a roomy sound and so on... Like a choir, an organ is very difficult to record.

If I were you, I'd try to find a good sound guy (expiremented with recording natural audio - I mean not a DJ) who can check whether your mic(s) is OK for the job and help you find the best setup for a good audio restitution.
thanks 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
eduardocfs on 6/12/2020(UTC)
mavik  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:26:33 PM(UTC)
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A little bit of support could be a RTA to visualize the spectrum coming from the mic. This way you can change positions and "see" what influence it has. And in general it show what spectrum the mic is capable of.
And as the others mentioned as well there is not only the A/D (samplerate, bitrate, bit-count) but also the D/A important at the end. If you connect a good PA the sound is different compared to a cheap headset.
The codecs basically remove the spectral frequencies that are acustically hidden for the human ear. And each ear is different and somewhere you have to make the trade off between bandwidth and quality.

With the focus of streaming and the Servers/CDNs/players/user equipment I would say the most effect will make a good mic (maybe Schoeps, DPA)
elvis55  
#12 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 12:01:12 AM(UTC)
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How to record church organ?

Kirchenorgel mit H4n Pro

Germany only (translate with translator)
Soapm  
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:54:45 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for all the help and advice guys, you've certainly helped me a lot. I'm an 30+ year electronic engineer (not sound) before turning pastor so I understand most of what you're saying.

So you know what I've done so far, we mic'd the Leslie cabinet with two Sennheiser e609 silver guitar mics, configured similar to these

image_19893.jpg (102kb) downloaded 0 time(s).
image_19894.jpg (157kb) downloaded 0 time(s).

except we have one mic in the upper chamber for the horn and one in the lower for the woofer. I got that idea from the Hammond Organ forum, but as you can see, they put both mics in the top which means they probably have a bass player (band) so don't need the bass from the organ.

I see part of my problem, even though the mic (e609) starts to respond at 40hz, it doesn't fully respond until 100hz according to the response chart.

Response Chart.JPG (110kb) downloaded 0 time(s).

I know some of the lower bass pedals would be below that range. How far down and how you mic that is what I don't know.

I'm going to try the spectrum analyzer to at least see where I'm cutting off then I'll try and translate the pages elvis suggested.

Thanks for all the help.
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