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Code4Sale  
#1 Posted : Sunday, April 27, 2014 11:41:00 PM(UTC)
Code4Sale

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$$$ Limited Device Input Resolution $$$

Sure, your specs say max resolution of 1920x1080 for my package, but I figured that was OUTPUT, not an input!!!

OK, I have paid you guys several hundred dollars, and your software won't work with a video input from our microscopes, because the direct show driver for my device has an output resolution that is greater than 1920x1080, and your software displays dialogs wanting "Mo-Money!!!" to use it for an input.

So I have to pre-encode a video file, or run it though a competing package to work with your forced LIMITATIONS.

Is it really that difficult for your pocketbook to allow any input, and drop the output resolution to what we pay for and expect??

Who ya hurting with this policy of locking out my devices, me or you?

I have to take an extra step to get around this, all the while I am cursing at you. You have a stack of hundred dollar bills from me, and I can't (or wont) use your software because you are nickle and diming me. I just want to use my devices to OUTPUT at the resolution I have paid for.

I do not think you are being fair, and it make me hate you everytime I see your slick little icon.

It sure would be nice to see my microscope work with your software, and think "hey, perhaps I would like to upgrade to get better output", but no, now I think about how VMix might fail me in the future, with my other devices, and that leaves me with nothing but doubt for your product and a bad taste in my mouth.

Funny thing is, I want to like you. I want to recommend you. But no, you make me hate you VMix!

So now, thanks to you, I had to open a competitor of yours, and use it, and the more I do that, the better I like it....

So in your quest to stuff your pocketbook, who are you hurting buddy?

Yourself!

GRRRR!!!
admin  
#2 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 1:40:06 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

The number one priority of vMix development is to ensure it is reliable. This means only adding resolutions after we are able to test them ourselves.

Perhaps at this point you should email us so I can offer you a full refund.
I have tried to explain my thinking and our approach to the software versions for you in the past, but you have constantly accused us of trying to make a quick buck.

Regards,

Martin
vMix





Code4Sale  
#3 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 2:33:50 AM(UTC)
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As a 30 year developer of graphics software, and having seen how your different versions work in this regards, your reasoning seems to be nothing short of a duck and cover excuse. Sorry.

The device works if I give you more money.

You make some great software, but limiting the devices used for input and popping up a upgrade dialog is simply a money driven decision on your part.

I don't want a refund. I want software I can reply on, without surprises.

Lets be truthful, shall we?

You up-sample and down-sample all inputs as needed for the output size required.

You added the limitation specifically as per version, not for reliability. In fact, the software is the same, only the license limits how it works.

That is true, correct?

I gave you my truthful options. you don't want them, your reply is less than truthful, and you want give me a refund so I will go away?

I thought you could do better than that.
admin  
#4 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 3:30:18 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

4K support required the purchase of a lot of expensive cameras and hardware for testing. This is reflected in the cost of the top version of vMix.
Therefore, the vMix 4K edition is what the full feature set is worth and we provide discounted versions such as HD, SD, and Basic HD based on that to provide affordable alternatives.

Reliability requires testing and testing costs money for the hardware, hence the cost, how much clearer can I make it?

So what else can I do but offer a refund? You obviously disagree with how vMix is priced. Shouting and complaining is not going to change that and doesn't help anyone.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
Code4Sale  
#5 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 3:56:09 AM(UTC)
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VMix is priced fairly.

1920x1080 output is fine.

You can easily make an input that is bigger (a jpeg, video capture, virtual input) to test with.

You do that all day long. Year in, year out. Don't try to kid me. I'm a graphics programmer, remember?

I'm not asking for 4k.

Come on. What your telling me is if my input device is (for example) is retnia sized, the size of a good tablet, or even a cheap CCD camera, or phone, it is disallowed as an input, because it is larger than 1920x1080.

You can easily sample that down.

In fact, your code already does it!

It actually took you more time to put in that dialog, and disallow the input... Didn't it? yup...

I'm not asking for anything except to use my device. Not at any more resolution than I have paid for.

And i think it stinks that you will not allow that.

And I think it really stinks that you make lame excuses of "reliability" and "equipment cost to test".

Just use a virtual input to test with, and if the direct show capture does not work, let me report it to the other company, cause I know your capture code is top notch.

I am not telling you anything you do not already know, or have not already done.

Now, please unlock the input resolution.

As far as my ranting, this is just how some folks see your limitation. I am not alone. You should value my input. It is brutally honest, and thats better any day of the week than politely not telling you how it is.

Thanks a bunch for your consideration,fds

Joe




admin  
#6 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 4:41:00 AM(UTC)
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The capture code is only "top notch" as you suggest because we meticulously test all of these different scenarios with real hardware to ensure they work well.
It's not simply a matter of adding the resolution with the flick of a switch, there are a lot of other things to consider.
(I tested "virtual" 4K inputs over a year ago by the way and noticed very different performance to the real cards and cameras tested prior to release)

For example, in the past I have needed to test various colour spaces with particular hardware as some have different
stride and buffer requirements depending on resolution.

So what you can do is submit a new Feature Request listing the hardware model you would like to use and the native resolution it supports.
This will then be considered based on a variety of factors including if other users would like to see it supported and the development time required to implement.

I will tell you now though, any resolution above 1920x1080 will require vMix 4K.
This cost of this version reflects the time, effort and equipment that has gone into providing good performance and reliability beyond HD.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
dundurs  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 5:35:33 AM(UTC)
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It does not seem that Code4Sale is motivated to be rasonable and help to improve vMix, rather than to create some negative emotions probably compensating for something. Sometimes its just a waste of time to try to convince someone.
thanks 1 user thanked dundurs for this useful post.
OpenROADer on 4/28/2014(UTC)
Damn2Good4U  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 7:59:09 AM(UTC)
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dundurs wrote:
It does not seem that Code4Sale is motivated to be rasonable and help to improve vMix, rather than to create some negative emotions probably compensating for something. Sometimes its just a waste of time to try to convince someone.


I totally agreed with the above
dundurs  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 8:16:22 AM(UTC)
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Damn2Good4U wrote:

I totally agreed with the above


Thanks. Also it pains me to see how people are taking advantage of Martin's responsiveness.

For example, on wirecast forum you would have got "thank you for your post, please create a ticket type of answer", while on vidblaster forum Mike would had told you to go screw yourself and perhaps banned you for life.

I think we should cherish the fact that we have a say instead of shouting out loud.

Lets just hope Martin does not sell out to some huge company, but instead become huge :)
OpenROADer  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 12:09:03 PM(UTC)
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Damn2Good4U wrote:
dundurs wrote:
It does not seem that Code4Sale is motivated to be rasonable and help to improve vMix, rather than to create some negative emotions probably compensating for something. Sometimes its just a waste of time to try to convince someone.


I totally agreed with the above

+2
MrFreeze  
#11 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 8:44:42 PM(UTC)
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dundurs wrote:
It does not seem that Code4Sale is motivated to be rasonable and help to improve vMix, rather than to create some negative emotions probably compensating for something. Sometimes its just a waste of time to try to convince someone.


Agreed 100%

Martin your doing a great job!! Love vmix!
madness  
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 1, 2014 2:51:39 PM(UTC)
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Playing devil's advocate here...

It is of My opinion that the inputs should not be restricted on input resolution capability, it is the output that IMO, should be restricted. If you want 4K, it's all about both input and output.

Why should my webcam be limited to an odd 640x480 4:3 format input in an SD registered version when it is fully capable of 1080p 16:9.

The output is another story IMO, and should be the determining factor for pricing. You want higher quality output, you should pay for it.

BTW, I love what Martin is doing here as well, but I really think the inputs should not be restricted to SD, HD, or 4K, just the outputs.

We pay for the quality of the end result. That is completely fair. But what is happening is limitations on both input and output, when the final output resolution alone should be the determining factor. If I can't view and record in anything above what I purchased, this is understandable, but if I can't select any of the available input resolutions on my camera simply because they don't meet the input requirements of the version I own, well, that's where I tend to agree with the OP.
madness  
#13 Posted : Friday, May 2, 2014 9:40:46 AM(UTC)
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In addition to the above, I had purchased the SD version with unlimited outputs and such, and was preparing for a recent event. This is where I had problems with my camera resolutions not matching what I was trying to view and record. On top of that, I found that I wasn't able to get smooth output video like I had gotten with the Basic HD, and the Trial version prior to owning the SD version. I did another upgrade to the full HD version, and everything was again butter smooth, and I had the ability to use my widescreen camera inputs once again.

To Be Honest, I don't understand why the HD versions run better than the SD versions when you are working with so many more pixels.
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