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mjgraves  
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 3:32:53 AM(UTC)
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Here's a curious thing. Setting up for a conference where I was using (2) BirdDog Studio encoders to capture presenter laptops at podiums. Naturally, we'll be changing sources as we transition between presenters. So, there will occasionally be no input connected to the BDS.

When this happens it hangs vMix hard. So hard that I can't kill the process from task manager. I must reboot the PC, which is definitely not an option. FWIW, the faulty NDI stream also causes problem for Newtek Studio Monitor.

To overcome this issue I tried two things:

(1) Added a Decimeter Design scaler ahead of the BirdDog encoder. I've used these in the past to ensure that the source is always 1080p59.94. This did not help the problem of vMix hanging when we changed source laptops upstream.

(2) Fed SDI output of the scaler into a BDM ATEM, using it as a frame sync. Input #1 routed to aux out #1 to BirdDog #1. This DID solve the problem.

I've opened a ticket with BirdDog on this matter. They admit that there are circumstances which cause their encoder to send a faulty stream. That should not happen. They should act like a frame sync. Lacking for an input, send clean back.

It's worth noting how vMix behaved. vMix did not crash, but become uncontrollable.

The gear was rented for an event, so I had little opportunity to experiment. May experiment using BirdDog Mini now that I'm back in my office.
thanks 1 user thanked mjgraves for this useful post.
niemi on 9/18/2019(UTC)
mavik  
#2 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 10:34:48 PM(UTC)
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Have you tried restarting the video within the BDS web interface.
mjgraves  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 12:27:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
Have you tried restarting the video within the BDS web interface.


Oh, yes. But by the time the source was switched vMix was already ceased up, forcing a reboot of the PC. Rebooting the BDS devices would have been annoying but acceptable.
mavik  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:41:46 AM(UTC)
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Are you able to reproduce with what exact steps, if. I would like to doublecheck on my end.
mjgraves  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:01:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
Are you able to reproduce with what exact steps, if. I would like to doublecheck on my end.


I'm waiting on Fedex to return my vMix host. It should arrive tomorrow. Then I'll be able to test again.

That test will use a BirdDog Mini and several different source computers.
dark_ata  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 4:21:02 AM(UTC)
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i have the same problem but using the blackmagic quad 2, some times if you change the resolution of the input the vmix stop to respond, the streaming and recording are fine but you cant change camera or any parameter, later some seconds to minutes start working again great.
mjgraves  
#7 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2019 12:26:17 AM(UTC)
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This is peripheral to vMix, but further testing with a BirdDog Mini has shown that changing input will quite often cause a downstream device using the NDI stream to fail. Not always, but often enough.

In testing I used vMix and NDI Studio Monitor. Most often, NDI Studio Monitor loses the stream and eventually collapses. Occasionally it displays a malformed image (as attached.)

UserPostedImage

I've passed my findings to BirdDog support. IMHO, the device should have a more graceful failure mode. It should never output a faulty stream.

kevev  
#8 Posted : Saturday, August 24, 2019 2:12:47 PM(UTC)
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I have experienced the same thing 4 times today during a test broadcast. Very reproducible. Sony AX100 cameras into bird dog mini, into switch, into vMix.

Almost every time that the HDMI cable is disconnected between the camera and bird dog, vMix will hard crash. No errors, it just closes.

Wondering if vMix can handle this issue better, or if it is a bird dog issue.

Wondering if there are any good hdmi to NDI converters out there.
mjgraves  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 4:04:10 AM(UTC)
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BirdDog has reported that the matter has been addressed in the pending v3.0 firmware release.
kevev  
#10 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 5:05:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mjgraves Go to Quoted Post
BirdDog has reported that the matter has been addressed in the pending v3.0 firmware release.


Do you have a link to this information? Is there a beta version available for testing?
mjgraves  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:04:27 AM(UTC)
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It was in a long comment thread in the NDI Video Users group on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com...rmalink/410351526263562/

As for beta access, you'll need to approach the company about that.
kevev  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:09:40 AM(UTC)
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I sent a support ticket in requesting beta access. No response yet. At this point in time I now have a set if 3x $500 paper weights. :(

Are the magewell ndi boxes any better? May send these bird dogs back.
kevev  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:04:48 AM(UTC)
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BirdDog sent me beta 5 of 3.0 firmware. Hoping it will resolve the issue.
kevev  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, August 28, 2019 7:19:11 AM(UTC)
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BirdDog to the rescue!! Thank You Dan!

Firmware 3.0 Beta 5 has resolved the hard crash issue. For anyone having the same issue, I was told that the final version of 3.0 should be released this week.
niemi  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 7:04:36 AM(UTC)
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Quite shocked to read about "... funky sources or incorrectly detected formats ..." which will cause vMix to halt completely.

Would have hoped to see NDI implementations being much more mature at this point. I mean it is 2019 now. When was NDI introduced? When was the first Birddogs introduced?

A firmware to fix what Michael Graves has reported is just about to be rolled out in v3.

Reading this report I'm very happy that we're still running most everything on HD-SDI.
mjgraves  
#16 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 12:56:14 PM(UTC)
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I'm old enough to remember when HD-SDI was new. There were initially issues with chipsets from some vendors not correctly dealing with certain cables types or lengths. End-users had to work these things out for themselves. It was not possible to know in advance what devices would work well together.

This is no different, except that the price of the NDI devices is an order of magnitude (or more) cheaper. These devices are relatively new and the firmware is still evolving.

Don't expect perfection from day 1. It's enough that the company acknowledged the problem I reported, and addressed it something less than a month. That's exemplary and should be commended.

NDI, or any kind of production over IP, is a significant change. You need to own your workflow, find the issues and work through them. Reputable manufacturers will be your partners in that effort.
kevev  
#17 Posted : Monday, September 9, 2019 3:19:46 AM(UTC)
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The beta firmware did not prevent a hard crash during broadcast yestersay. Also the birddogs do not like any amount of heat. They crash constantly. One of the birddogs stopped receiving hdmi video. I think it is dead. My opinion is that these are junk. We purchased 3 magewell ndi devices for testing. Unfortunately we are not able to see them in vMix or in nd Monitor app. I am able to access the web interface on them and successfully updated the firmware on all 3. Still can't get video. Does anyone make good ndi hardware?
JoseL  
#18 Posted : Monday, September 9, 2019 10:02:35 AM(UTC)
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Magewell do not like some tipe of hdmi signal, try with other resolution.
I have 4k proconvert, latency is very very low, quality is good. No problem with hdmi disconnect. I test in hot environment, no problem.

Regards

Jose.
niemi  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2019 11:37:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: kevev Go to Quoted Post
The beta firmware did not prevent a hard crash during broadcast yestersay. Also the birddogs do not like any amount of heat. They crash constantly. One of the birddogs stopped receiving hdmi video. I think it is dead. My opinion is that these are junk. We purchased 3 magewell ndi devices for testing. Unfortunately we are not able to see them in vMix or in nd Monitor app. I am able to access the web interface on them and successfully updated the firmware on all 3. Still can't get video. Does anyone make good ndi hardware?


You could try out Newtek's Spark lineup https://www.newtek.com/spark/

Newtek themselves are developing NDI so that could prove beneficial.
mjgraves  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, September 11, 2019 2:31:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: kevev Go to Quoted Post
The beta firmware did not prevent a hard crash during broadcast yestersay. Also the birddogs do not like any amount of heat. They crash constantly. One of the birddogs stopped receiving hdmi video. I think it is dead. My opinion is that these are junk. We purchased 3 magewell ndi devices for testing. Unfortunately we are not able to see them in vMix or in nd Monitor app. I am able to access the web interface on them and successfully updated the firmware on all 3. Still can't get video. Does anyone make good ndi hardware?


This was not at all my experience. I've had a Mini on soak test for a week running beta firmware in a workspace that goes to 80F after office hours.

They do get warm, but I've had no issue at all.

Have you engaged the manufacturer in troubleshooting. I've found them to be very responsive.
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