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madido  
#1 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2019 1:44:27 AM(UTC)
madido

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Hello,
I've recently tested Bird Dog Studio and I discovered that it has lowest latency than decklink quad in SDI...
So I'm arranging a new machine for a system that will be based only on NDI for camera capture.
I can imagine that the needs would be similar to an SDI system (apart for PCIe lanes required for an high channel count capture card based system).
But I wonder if there's something to be careful in particular for a big amount of NDI processing.

Thank you

Stefano

JoseL  
#2 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2019 7:36:53 AM(UTC)
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Lower latency tha sdi?, sure?.
I think you have something wrong. Have you choose “low latency capture” in preferences?.
No sense to me because ndi on vmix has about 2 frames latency and sdi is only 1.

Regards

Jose.
jacklavey  
#3 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:42:36 PM(UTC)
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I've had similar issues with SDI having more latency than NDI core signals like birddog.

JoseL, what is your vmix system build?

madido: I'm personally hoping to test adding a 10gb network card to one of my builds soon as well as a 10gb network switch to avoid the bandwidth limitations of single gigabit networking. Though I'm not sure at what point the Graphics card will start to get choked up.
zenvideo  
#4 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 5:17:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jacklavey Go to Quoted Post
madido: I'm personally hoping to test adding a 10gb network card to one of my builds soon as well as a 10gb network switch to avoid the bandwidth limitations of single gigabit networking. Though I'm not sure at what point the Graphics card will start to get choked up.

I think that a 10Gb link from PC to switch could be a good move. I've tested single NDI hardware encoders against PCIe/USB capture devices and seen similar latency (between a PCIe card and a hardware NDI encoder), but in a recent test with a PCIe card for reference plus three NDI encoders (BirdDog, Magewell & NewTek), and using a "complex" video source at 1080p60, I found that whilst the NDI encoders were typically all on the same frame, the PCIe card was always a frame ahead - sometimes more. Thinking about it, it's perhaps not surprising that the more ethernet bandwidth is required (between the PC and network switch) by using multiple NDI sources, the more the overall NDI latency will increase.

vMixScreen3wayR-5c.png (971kb) downloaded 2 time(s).
thanks 1 user thanked zenvideo for this useful post.
Nazarene Israel on 2/18/2019(UTC)
JoseL  
#5 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 8:01:15 PM(UTC)
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I get same result as zenvideo, maybe some time 2frames difference between NDI and decklink capture card.
Problem come from way vmix capture NDI, it need about 1-2frame more than for example obs.
I have exactly same latency between ndi and decklink with obs, but with vmix always ndi has more latency.
I hope a fix in a future about this. If tricaster and obs do it, vmix can do it too.

My vmix system is obsidian with 10gb nic.

Regards

Jose.
thanks 1 user thanked JoseL for this useful post.
Nazarene Israel on 2/18/2019(UTC)
Nazarene Israel  
#6 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 4:48:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
I get same result as zenvideo, maybe some time 2frames difference between NDI and decklink capture card.
Problem come from way vmix capture NDI, it need about 1-2frame more than for example obs.
I have exactly same latency between ndi and decklink with obs, but with vmix always ndi has more latency.
I hope a fix in a future about this. If tricaster and obs do it, vmix can do it too.

My vmix system is obsidian with 10gb nic.

Regards

Jose.



Is there a make and model 10gb nic anyone can recommend?

Appreciated.

Norman
JoseL  
#7 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 11:58:42 PM(UTC)
JoseL

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We use startech PEX10000SFP, reason is because only need 4lanes.

Regards

Jose.



Originally Posted by: Nazarene Israel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
I get same result as zenvideo, maybe some time 2frames difference between NDI and decklink capture card.
Problem come from way vmix capture NDI, it need about 1-2frame more than for example obs.
I have exactly same latency between ndi and decklink with obs, but with vmix always ndi has more latency.
I hope a fix in a future about this. If tricaster and obs do it, vmix can do it too.

My vmix system is obsidian with 10gb nic.

Regards

Jose.



Is there a make and model 10gb nic anyone can recommend?

Appreciated.

Norman

thanks 1 user thanked JoseL for this useful post.
Nazarene Israel on 2/19/2019(UTC)
madido  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:26:09 PM(UTC)
madido

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In my first test I did not do an accurate measurement of the latency.
My system was with a Decklink quad 2 and a bird dog studio with low latency input checked and ndi udp enabled; visually the ndi signal was a little bit faster than sdi.
But following your inputs I tried other NDI receivers (OBS, Newtek's Studio Monitor and Vidblaster) and I must say that vMix is the slower one.
I tried a very simple test switching different test patterns in Newtek's Test Patterns software (I don't have the Bird Dog studio anymore) and I noticed variable latency in vMix with some occasional stutters….
I would like to set up an all NDI system, but vMix does not seem to be the best solution….

Stefano
JoseL  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2019 5:28:38 PM(UTC)
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If best for you is “lower ndi latency” vmix is not the best.
What we get here is total latency of 3frames with sdi, 4-5 frames latency with ndi input.
Can not get better than that here.

Regards

Jose.
madido  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2019 6:13:18 PM(UTC)
madido

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And this is weird….
vMix has always been a pioneer in NDI world.
And honestly I think is the best software video switcher solution around.
I really want to jump to NDI wagon because I think the echosystem could lead to amazing opportunities in terms of flexibility and capabilities (think about something like Sienna Processing Engine or cloud mixing).
I would like to make vMix the core of my system, but working a lot in IMAG projects low latency is an essential feature for me.

Any word from Martin or Tim?

Stefano
Nazarene Israel  
#11 Posted : Friday, February 22, 2019 6:55:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
We use startech PEX10000SFP, reason is because only need 4lanes.

Regards

Jose.



Originally Posted by: Nazarene Israel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
I get same result as zenvideo, maybe some time 2frames difference between NDI and decklink capture card.
Problem come from way vmix capture NDI, it need about 1-2frame more than for example obs.
I have exactly same latency between ndi and decklink with obs, but with vmix always ndi has more latency.
I hope a fix in a future about this. If tricaster and obs do it, vmix can do it too.

My vmix system is obsidian with 10gb nic.

Regards

Jose.



Is there a make and model 10gb nic anyone can recommend?

Appreciated.

Norman




If I was a newbie and wanted to build an obsidian with a 10gb nic and poe Router with many lanes, and also wanted to connect to a TriCaster, is there a good make / model nic and poe router anyone can recommend?
Nazarene Israel  
#12 Posted : Sunday, February 24, 2019 2:40:37 PM(UTC)
Nazarene Israel

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Jose, may I please ask, what is the make/model on your 10GB Router, and are you happy with it?

Kind regards

Norman.

Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
We use startech PEX10000SFP, reason is because only need 4lanes.

Regards

Jose.



Originally Posted by: Nazarene Israel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
I get same result as zenvideo, maybe some time 2frames difference between NDI and decklink capture card.
Problem come from way vmix capture NDI, it need about 1-2frame more than for example obs.
I have exactly same latency between ndi and decklink with obs, but with vmix always ndi has more latency.
I hope a fix in a future about this. If tricaster and obs do it, vmix can do it too.

My vmix system is obsidian with 10gb nic.

Regards

Jose.



Is there a make and model 10gb nic anyone can recommend?

Appreciated.

Norman

JoseL  
#13 Posted : Saturday, March 2, 2019 12:49:21 AM(UTC)
JoseL

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I use ONV-POE36028PFM, microtik has a similar CRS328-24P-4S+RM
For sfp you can buy from mikrotik or onv.

Regards

Jose.

Originally Posted by: Nazarene Israel Go to Quoted Post
Jose, may I please ask, what is the make/model on your 10GB Router, and are you happy with it?

Kind regards

Norman.

Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
We use startech PEX10000SFP, reason is because only need 4lanes.

Regards

Jose.



Originally Posted by: Nazarene Israel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
I get same result as zenvideo, maybe some time 2frames difference between NDI and decklink capture card.
Problem come from way vmix capture NDI, it need about 1-2frame more than for example obs.
I have exactly same latency between ndi and decklink with obs, but with vmix always ndi has more latency.
I hope a fix in a future about this. If tricaster and obs do it, vmix can do it too.

My vmix system is obsidian with 10gb nic.

Regards

Jose.



Is there a make and model 10gb nic anyone can recommend?

Appreciated.

Norman


thanks 1 user thanked JoseL for this useful post.
Nazarene Israel on 3/2/2019(UTC)
wotipka  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:22:48 AM(UTC)
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Greetings all. Interesting thread discussing the latency issues with an all NDI system. I am looking to put together an all NDI 6 source system. We are NOT doing any I-Mag at all but only recording / streaming. Other than having a fast network, are there any issues with delays between the NDI streams? Can anyone give a "real world" idea of bandwidth. I know that NDI has a spec of 140Mb/sec for the UDP but how many can you actually hang off of a 1G ethernet connection?

Thanks in advance and feel free to point out any threads that may help. New user here.

kw
doggy  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:49:14 AM(UTC)
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don't transfer video files on that network if you want no source interruptions !!
lesson learned
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