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jstobbe  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2018 7:50:37 PM(UTC)
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[img][/img]Hi there,

I'm a somewhat long time Wirecast user, and something that I found useful was "drop shadow". I would use to overlay images on video, or video on images. Here is an example - https://prnt.sc/kyqek1 - notice the top right.

In Wirecast, this is a simple click, and bam! - drop shadow appears.

But I can't seem to find a way this is done in VMix. Can anyone help?

Please note: I'm not looking for a chroma key solution. I stream live events, and blue or green screen just isn't available, and a 4 or 5 step process is not really feasible either. I guess if it can't be done, it can't be done. But I would be surprised it isn't easily doable - the engineers at VMix have thought of almost everything!

Thanks in advance
DWAM  
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:53:23 AM(UTC)
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It can't be done with a one click button

vMix is for creative people. It's easy to do with Luma keying or just a multiview input that's contain your own graphics to produce the desired effect

Guillaume
stevespaw  
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 11:17:06 AM(UTC)
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Actually, this is NOT an easy effect to obtain in vMix.

It would be easier if we had "opacity" in the Multiview "Position" tool.

Also we have no Keyers in the MultiView - which would be awesome.

We also cannot invert the luma key which would also be helpful in this, and I have wished for.

Guillaume has posted a slightly flippant response but in reality there is not a very easy way to achieve the simple drop shadow on the box you illustrated.

My 2 cents,
Steve
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rowby on 10/11/2018(UTC)
mjgraves  
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:07:17 PM(UTC)
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Not THAT difficult to do, but you will need a piece of source art. And a little prep time.

Make an image that's a rectangle with the desired soft edge. It can be an image with an explicit alpha channel, or just created over keyable background.

IMHO, it's easier if you can make an image with a soft edge mask.

In the multi-view add this as the drop shadow layer. Resize and reposition as desired for each shot.

Will try to assemble a tutorial, since this is right in my wheelhouse.
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ask on 9/28/2018(UTC)
stevespaw  
#5 Posted : Friday, September 28, 2018 9:18:00 AM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:
Not THAT difficult to do, but you will need a piece of source art. And a little prep time.

Make an image that's a rectangle with the desired soft edge. It can be an image with an explicit alpha channel, or just created over keyable background.

IMHO, it's easier if you can make an image with a soft edge mask.

In the multi-view add this as the drop shadow layer. Resize and reposition as desired for each shot.



Actually you made the point, you would need to use some external software to create some matching artwork and have the skills to do it. Coming from a traditional world, creating a drop shadow on a keyed image is built in. I of course love vMix but he did point out something basic that is hard to do.


So as a challenge, A client gives me this artwork (just a quick image I grabbed), wants it scaled and positioned as a Over The Shoulder - easy!
now add a drop shadow to it - :-) rot row - not easy.

BTW I, (for the sake of this topic) do not have Photoshop or any art skills
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stevespaw  
#6 Posted : Friday, September 28, 2018 9:25:47 AM(UTC)
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If I had:

Opacity
Key Inversion
Color Correction

On each layer in a Multiview (I still hate that name), I could do this in vMix
mjgraves  
#7 Posted : Friday, September 28, 2018 1:43:36 PM(UTC)
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Here's the promised tutorial. It presumes that you don't have access to or knowledge of Photoshop. It also presumes that you'd like to have control of the shadow size/position/color in vMix.

- In Powerpoint, Keynote or similar.
- Create a blank slide
- Right-click over the slide and select Format Background
- Set it Solid Fill
- Select black as the color

- Add a rectangle object
- Right-click & select Format Shape
- Select white as the color
- On the second shape options menu select Soft Edges
- Set the size as desired

- Save the PPTX file
- Save-As selecting PNG as the file type
- When prompted select "Just this Slide"

- Add the resulting file to your vMix project
- In vMix add an Input selecting Color as the type.
- Select the desired color for your shadow
- Click on the cog for the color shot
- Select the Color key menu
- For Key/Fill select the shadow file from the drop down list
- You'll see your colored field masked by the image
- Close the shot

- Select the shot you want to use as the base for your multiview
- Set the color shot as layer #1
- Use the related Position menu to place it as desired
- Select your foreground image as layer #2
- Use the related Position menu to place it as desired

Here's what the resulting work looks like:

UserPostedImage

This would be a lot easier if vMix allowed the following:

- User control of mix insertion for multiview layers (see feature request made yesterday)
- A less complicated way to have color fill in a key shape, preferably in the multiview
- blur capability, including key blur
Peter B  
#8 Posted : Friday, September 28, 2018 2:29:33 PM(UTC)
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stevespaw wrote:
If I had:

Opacity
Key Inversion
Color Correction

On each layer in a Multiview (I still hate that name), I could do this in vMix


A big +1 to opacity, invert and CC would be nice.
Rename Multiview to ME, it's too confusing with the other multiview.
This will reinforece the fact that vMix sorta already has lots of MEs.

And to make it more like an ME give each layer a mix on/off button, we already have `cut' or the tick box. Maybe a couple of other transitions as well.
stevespaw  
#9 Posted : Friday, September 28, 2018 5:35:36 PM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:
Here's the promised tutorial. It presumes that you don't have access to or knowledge of Photoshop. It also presumes that you'd like to have control of the shadow size/position/color in vMix.



This would be a lot easier if vMix allowed the following:

- User control of mix insertion for multiview layers (see feature request made yesterday)
- A less complicated way to have color fill in a key shape, preferably in the multiview
- blur capability, including key blur


Nice for a square box, and if you have PowerPoint :-)
Now try my challenge.

Just giving you a hard time, because you do realize that this is NOT easy.


Steve
mjgraves  
#10 Posted : Friday, September 28, 2018 6:25:40 PM(UTC)
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stevespaw wrote:

Just giving you a hard time, because you do realize that this is NOT easy.


I spent 10 years as an online editor, running traditional production switchers. A couple years in print at a magazine. Then 21 years working for Pixel Power, a manufacturer of broadcast graphics systems, installing systems all across North America. Training tons of designers & artists.

It's a challenge for me to work through how folks who are not intimate with the intricacies of keyers and alpha channels can get things done. Productively.

I also realise adding substantial complexity to vMix will not entirely replace graphics pre-production. It will just make the system ever more unwieldy.

I wonder if the idea that "vMix should do it because that's how a traditional switcher works" is something we need to get over. It's not a traditional switcher. It's a PC. If Photoshop (or similar) is the right tool for the job, it may be unwise to ask many functions be implemented in vMix.

Yes, that means learning a new tool. But that will be its own reward, in the end. You can charge for graphics pre-production.
mjgraves  
#11 Posted : Friday, September 28, 2018 6:37:28 PM(UTC)
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Peter B wrote:

A big +1 to opacity, invert and CC would be nice.
Rename Multiview to ME, it's too confusing with the other multiview.
This will reinforece the fact that vMix sorta already has lots of MEs.

And to make it more like an ME give each layer a mix on/off button, we already have `cut' or the tick box. Maybe a couple of other transitions as well.


But it's not an M/E. Not even close. The analogy is blown by the lack of transitions. And adding transitions brings crazy complexity.

Multiview is more like a layering switcher. For creating composites. A composer.
Peter B  
#12 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2018 5:00:49 AM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:
Peter B wrote:

A big +1 to opacity, invert and CC would be nice.
Rename Multiview to ME, it's too confusing with the other multiview.
This will reinforece the fact that vMix sorta already has lots of MEs.

And to make it more like an ME give each layer a mix on/off button, we already have `cut' or the tick box. Maybe a couple of other transitions as well.


But it's not an M/E. Not even close. The analogy is blown by the lack of transitions. And adding transitions brings crazy complexity.

Multiview is more like a layering switcher. For creating composites. A composer.


Yes it needs transitions. Clicking cut/mix/trans1 would toggle the layer.
The red active indicators replace the tick box.

To transition multiple layers, right clicking puts it in a blue selection group.
`Take selected' then toggles all selected layers.

In this example -

Layer 1 cuts on
Layer 3 mixes off
Layer 7 mixes off
Layer 8 cuts off
Layer 10 transitions on using the transition selected in the Transition 1 pulldown.

Pixel Power great products, we had a Collage and then Clarity as well.

UserPostedImage
Yannick  
#13 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2018 7:09:10 AM(UTC)
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Peter, could you start a feature request with you suggestion to the multiview, I think it´s a good suggestions.
mjgraves  
#14 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2018 9:52:07 AM(UTC)
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Peter - You've take a menu used to setup a shots into a wholly different context. You made it a switcher until itself. From a user point of view, one does not keep that menu open during a live show. It's something used in pre-prod.
spencerm24  
#15 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2018 10:05:45 AM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:
Peter - You've take a menu used to setup a shots into a wholly different context. You made it a switcher until itself. From a
user point of view, one does not keep that menu open during a live show. It's something used in pre-prod.


You are right, the window is not kept open, BUT perhaps adding this as a function would let us have shortcuts to do this, so we can make a control surface that can do this.
mjgraves  
#16 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2018 1:14:41 PM(UTC)
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spencerm24 wrote:
You are right, the window is not kept open, BUT perhaps adding this as a function would let us have shortcuts to do this, so we can make a control surface that can do this.


That would be a serious abomination from a product design/usability perspective.
Peter B  
#17 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2018 7:40:07 PM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:
Peter - You've take a menu used to setup a shots into a wholly different context. You made it a switcher until itself. From a user point of view, one does not keep that menu open during a live show. It's something used in pre-prod.


I must be doing it wrong, I usually always have the input settings open during the show to adjust gain and now colour correction, sometimes whip up a box insert or split when the opportunity presents, adjust cropping. I wish it had the option to switch the image off to save some cpu and screen resources.

The ability to transition multiple layers simultaneouly would be welcome.

You could tear off the top transition section like the audio mixer and make a new window. That would be good for the CCorrector too and of course lots of shortcuts.

How cool would tear off ME's be, Sony eat your heart out.

I will tack this onto an ME thread as it's a bit off topic here.

Pixel Power should make a soft NDI Collage, do they still exist? I thought that was their
trail blazing product, very Quantelesque, they went downhill from there.
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