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Anders  
#1 Posted : Monday, September 3, 2018 3:10:13 PM(UTC)
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http://www.studiodaily.com/2018/08/magewells-latest-encoder-converts-hdmi-video-to-ndi-streams/

I was hoping Magewell could bring the price of NDI converters down a bit, but at $999 it is still quite expensive to make the leap to NDI...
What do you think?
SportsNetUSA.net  
#2 Posted : Monday, September 3, 2018 6:03:08 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
Additional Pro Convert models – including 1080p60 configurations for users requiring only 2K or HD resolution – are also planned.


From that statement in the Magewell press release, there should be some less expensive models to follow soon. And there will also be the Magewell Bridge for NDI software. Perhaps Zenvideo can give us more details on this software.

It's good to have an additional choice for NDI hardware, particularly from a company such as Magewell that has produced reliable capture devices.
mjgraves  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 3, 2018 7:26:32 PM(UTC)
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It's strikes me that the cost differential for different models is slight. For example, a 4k version vs HD. For a given I/O arrangement the bill of materials is very similar.

The BirdDog Studio and Mini makes sense, since there's different I/O.

As long as these things are FPGA-based the cost is not going to fall that dramatically. That's expensive hardware to acquire and program.
SportsNetUSA.net  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 3, 2018 9:03:11 PM(UTC)
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True, but if Magewell comes out with an HD/HDMI only version, it would need to be competitively priced to the BirdDog Mini and NewTek Connect Spark HDMI. That's not to say it can't cost more, but it would still need to be within a reasonable price range.
mjgraves  
#5 Posted : Monday, September 3, 2018 10:33:59 PM(UTC)
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As with capture devices, including hardware for scaling and frame-rate conversion adds value.

I don't see the prices falling substantially until there are ASICs to replace the FPGAs.
lael  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 4, 2018 12:17:09 AM(UTC)
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4K vs HD is attractive...
zenvideo  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 4, 2018 4:46:55 AM(UTC)
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SportsNetUSA.net wrote:
Quote:
And there will also be the Magewell Bridge for NDI software. Perhaps Zenvideo can give us more details on this software.

I've requested, but not been sent a copy yet as it's still at the internal testing stage. Will report when I get it. Currently I'm testing the top-end 4K HDMI>NDI converter, but I'm expecting to see HD-only models at cheaper prices - no doubt the matter will get discussed at IBC.

There's some nice aspects of these converters, given that they're based on the Magewell USB Capture Plus models, with a FPGA NDI encoder bolted on the back end. One is the range of input resolutions that can be handled, making them ideal for picking up computer output at any non-broadcast resolution, whereas BirdDog currently has a more limited range. Scaling and frame-rate conversion is another, via quite a nice web interface (see attached image of one of the pages).
zenvideo attached the following image(s):
ProConvertDashboard.PNG (164kb) downloaded 8 time(s).

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thanks 4 users thanked zenvideo for this useful post.
DWAM on 9/4/2018(UTC), rudyengels on 9/4/2018(UTC), SportsNetUSA.net on 9/4/2018(UTC), mjgraves on 9/25/2018(UTC)
mavik  
#8 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2018 8:46:02 AM(UTC)
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Very nice. Will have a look at IBC on their booth.

Just to mention if it's for conversion only you can buy a BMD card and use software to convert to NDI.
Anders  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 5:24:29 AM(UTC)
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zenvideo wrote:
SportsNetUSA.net wrote:
Quote:
And there will also be the Magewell Bridge for NDI software. Perhaps Zenvideo can give us more details on this software.

I've requested, but not been sent a copy yet as it's still at the internal testing stage. Will report when I get it. Currently I'm testing the top-end 4K HDMI>NDI converter, but I'm expecting to see HD-only models at cheaper prices - no doubt the matter will get discussed at IBC.

There's some nice aspects of these converters, given that they're based on the Magewell USB Capture Plus models, with a FPGA NDI encoder bolted on the back end. One is the range of input resolutions that can be handled, making them ideal for picking up computer output at any non-broadcast resolution, whereas BirdDog currently has a more limited range. Scaling and frame-rate conversion is another, via quite a nice web interface (see attached image of one of the pages).


Do you know if it supports POE?
zenvideo  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:16:46 AM(UTC)
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Anders wrote:
Do you know if it supports POE?

Yes, the Pro Convert supports PoE, or power via USB.
zenvideo  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 4, 2018 8:58:06 PM(UTC)
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Some interesting test results performed today using different types of video capture connections - USB, PCIe, Thunderbolt and NDI. The devices included:
1) Magewell Pro Capture Quad HDMI card mounted in an external Zotac AMP Box Mini Thunderbolt 3 PCIe enclosure.
2) Magewell Pro Capture All-In-One card installed internally in a PCIe slot on the Asus Z170 motherboard.
3) Magewell Pro Connect 4K NDI converter.
4) Magewell USB Capture HDMI Plus via a USB3 port.
The signal source was a Blackmagic Mini Monitor 4K card, connected via a 4-way HDMI DA to the capture devices, and outputting a 1080p60 test signal with in-vision frame numbers and fairly complex video content - in order to give the NDI converter some work to do! You can see that the Pro Convert dashboard shows an outgoing data rate of 185Mb/s.

ProConvertDashboard1080p60.PNG (76kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

The vMix test setup was simply those four camera inputs, a text overlay and an image multiview showing a quad split overlay of the four main sources.

QuadTest1-4Oct18.PNG (750kb) downloaded 22 time(s).

What you see is that the NDI converter holds its own against the two PCIe capture cards, with the USB device appearing to be one frame behind. However, in the snapshot frame grabs produced by vMix, all four sources are typically in sync, all showing the same frame.

Sample "image output snapshot" file vMix Capture 04 October 2018 10-50-39.png (3,794kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

Changing the order of the inputs did make a slight difference. By putting the NDI & USB devices as the first two inputs, with the PCIe devices as 3 & 4, all four devices were showing in sync, both in the GUI preview and in the output snapshots. So it may be worth arranging your inputs with what you think may be slower devices as the lower numbered inputs. However, in these tests it was really only the USB device that appeared slightly slower than the PCIe cards, with the NDI converter providing similar overall latency to the PCIe cards.

QuadTest2-4Oct18.PNG (748kb) downloaded 24 time(s).

Sample "image output snapshot" file from the revised input order vMix Capture 04 October 2018 10-35-57.png (3,970kb) downloaded 8 time(s).
thanks 2 users thanked zenvideo for this useful post.
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JoseL  
#12 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2018 4:03:53 AM(UTC)
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thank you for your tests. If possible please add a blackmagic duo or quad2 card for next time.

One question, why inputs are on Frame 44B, and program output on 40B?.

zenvideo  
#13 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2018 11:53:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
thank you for your tests. If possible please add a blackmagic duo or quad2 card for next time.

I don't have either of those two cards, but I will do a similar test at some point, probably with a Blackmagic Mini Recorder included in the line-up.

Originally Posted by: JoseL Go to Quoted Post
One question, why inputs are on Frame 44B, and program output on 40B?.

I guess that's how vMix works internally - with latency between input and output.

admin  
#14 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 12:17:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zenvideo Go to Quoted Post

I guess that's how vMix works internally - with latency between input and output.


Actually, they should be the same.
The only way the output can become delayed like that is if the monitors refresh rate is slower than
vMix. Since vMix is set to 60p in this screenshot, my guess is the display is set to 59p or even perhaps lower at 50p.

JoseL  
#15 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 6:47:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zenvideo Go to Quoted Post

I guess that's how vMix works internally - with latency between input and output.



I usually has exactly same frame on in/out. something is wrong, maybe different frame rate between vmix and monitor, maybe is good to look into this and fix for future tests.

About blackmagic quad vs magewell,i got less latency on blackmagic. Depend on type of input. This is because i ask to add on future comparison.

Regards

Jose.
zenvideo  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 3:39:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: admin Go to Quoted Post
Actually, they should be the same.
The only way the output can become delayed like that is if the monitors refresh rate is slower than
vMix. Since vMix is set to 60p in this screenshot, my guess is the display is set to 59p or even perhaps lower at 50p.

I think the display/monitor was at 60HZ on that PC, but I can't check until I'm back at the office tomorrow. Meanwhile I did a similar sort of test with just a couple of inputs on my laptop at home (with 60Hz display), as below.

UI-test-1.PNG (210kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
UI-test-5.gif (353kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
JoseL  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 5:46:40 AM(UTC)
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... maybe a screenshot problem?, if you take a photo to the monitor has same latency difference?. Can you test total latency between input and output. You need a hdmi monitor on your source and same model of monitor on the hdmi output of computer, and take a photo of both.
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