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rowby  
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 2:47:52 PM(UTC)
rowby

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Hello Everybody.

I was looking at this video and it is a perfect example of the absolute need for Easy Ease for PTZ cameras. It has to be built into the hardware for software such as vMix to be able to take advantage of it.

In this video
you will see during some of the opening sequences, the clearly robotic panning of the camera.

The start and end of the pans are sudden and abrupt.

Very much a security camera "look". Except this technology event is not a event that should be having a "security cameras look".

This a video of a high tech convention -- not a convenience store.

Adding a easy ease to the beginning and end of a pan is something that is very easy add to camera hardware. There is no excuse for leading edge companies such as NewTek and PTZ Optics not to have this feature.

The bottom line is PTZ cameras will sooner or later have this easy ease -- and why not NewTek and PTZ Optics step up to the plate NOW.

This is 2018. Not 1980 Public Access cable TV world. There is no excuse for this.

I welcome any responses from PTZ Optics and Newtek. And please no excuses. Let's have some action :)


Best,
Rowby
DWAM  
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 5:35:38 PM(UTC)
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I fully agree but don't understand the reason why you post this here in the vMix forum.

Newtek has a forum, I believe PTZO too (not sure though) but they have a FB group.

Guillaume
rowby  
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 5:48:04 PM(UTC)
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DWAM wrote:
I fully agree but don't understand the reason why you post this here in the vMix forum.

Newtek has a forum, I believe PTZO too (not sure though) but they have a FB group.

Guillaume


Good point.

The main reason I posted here is because NewTek (Kane) has a presence on this forum. And I am pretty sure they sell the most expensive PTZ NDI camera out there. I think they should lead the way on this issue. Unless they want to dominate the security camera business.


I will take your suggestion and will post this on the NewTek forum.

I don’t think PTZ Optics has a forum — but I’ll check.

Rowby

.
livepad  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 20, 2018 6:43:38 AM(UTC)
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rowby wrote:
Hello Everybody.

I was looking at this video and it is a perfect example of the absolute need for Easy Ease for PTZ cameras. It has to be built into the hardware for software such as vMix to be able to take advantage of it.

In this video
you will see during some of the opening sequences, the clearly robotic panning of the camera.

The start and end of the pans are sudden and abrupt.

Very much a security camera "look". Except this technology event is not a event that should be having a "security cameras look".

This a video of a high tech convention -- not a convenience store.

Adding a easy ease to the beginning and end of a pan is something that is very easy add to camera hardware. There is no excuse for leading edge companies such as NewTek and PTZ Optics not to have this feature.

The bottom line is PTZ cameras will sooner or later have this easy ease -- and why not NewTek and PTZ Optics step up to the plate NOW.

This is 2018. Not 1980 Public Access cable TV world. There is no excuse for this.

I welcome any responses from PTZ Optics and Newtek. And please no excuses. Let's have some action :)


Best,
Rowby



NDI PTZ Commands already have a speed control from zero to fast, and most PTZ controllers have variable sensitivity and speed joysticks.
It's perfectly possible to do a very smooth pan and ramp up to speed with NDI. In fact - the standard NDI PTZ behaviour appears to have soft start and end implemented by default.
A lot of the look of PTZ will come down to the experience and skill of the camera operator. There is nothing fundamental here.


rowby  
#5 Posted : Friday, April 20, 2018 8:43:02 AM(UTC)
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Thanks livepad

That sounds hopeful.

Please see this post from last year and the response by Kane and and PTZ Optics regarding easy ease. And how PTZ Optics suggests using stingers to cover up sudden starts and stops.

https://forums.vmix.com/...aspx?g=posts&m=43865

As well as this video by PTZ Optics. https://forums.vmix.com/...aspx?g=posts&m=43865 Even with a slow camera movement with their iPhone app the starts and starts are abrupt

Has NDI changed this behavior and something similar to easy ease is possible? Hopefully the answer is yes, but Kane’s response from last July makes me uncertain.

From Paul at PTZ Optics:
Quote:
Usually, we would keep our PTZ cameras on static positions and avoid rotations with multiple PTZ positions per camera to avoid capturing actual PTZ camera movements. Here is where the blank stinger comes into play. In-between each camera or input in our playlist we can use transition effects. Usually, we would use a 1500 millisecond fade to nicely transition between various cameras. But using a blank stinger we can trigger the PTZ camera movements before the transition happens effectively masking the camera movements.


From Kane:
Quote:
Recalling camera presets is all in the hardware of the camera. The computer software isn't saying anymore more to the camera than 'recall preset 1'. At that point, the camera moves as it is designed. Some cameras might have speed adjustments, but any kind of advanced motion (spines, ease in/out) would have to be built into the firmware of the camera first before you could have a software application offer this kind of functionality.


Best
Rowby
kane  
#6 Posted : Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:16:55 AM(UTC)
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rowby wrote:

The main reason I posted here is because NewTek (Kane) has a presence on this forum. And I am pretty sure they sell the most expensive PTZ NDI camera out there.


You haven't looked at the Panasonic broadcast PTZ NDI cameras out there. While more expensive, cameras like their UN-70 or HN130 have better imaging and lens than the NewTek PTZ1, PTZ Optics or any other PTZ cameras in the sub $3K price range. I think the HN130 is the best PTZ camera on the market right now and it should be for $9K.

As for the motion, it comes down that there are two ways to control a PTZ camera.

You can recall a preset stored in the camera. This is what TriCaster and many other solution do. In these cases, the camera will move the way it is programmed to move, as the controller isn't doing anything more than saying 'go to preset 1'. Typically cameras are trying to move to the next preset as fast as possible to get the next shot setup.

The second way to do this is controlling all aspects of the camera completely. TriCaster used to do this, we would store the preset information of the camera and offered speed controls for moving the camera all in software. However, this ultimately wasn't a great solution. The problem is that every PTZ camera has a different 'world' in how much range it offers, its speed from slow to fast, the amount 'resolution' steps available as it rotates, it's zoom capability and zoom resolution as well. Trying to get a single set of controls to work with dozens and dozens of PTZ cameras was daunting. New versions of software would come out trying to make PTZ work better for one model, while in turn making it worse for another model. If you only wanted to limited set of PTZ cameras to work with, this method would be workable, but if you are trying to support as many as possible, this isn't the route to go.

Finally, on personal note. I find it interesting that, as soon as people get a PTZ camera, their workflow changes to 'I want jib type camera moves' in my events. However, a PTZ camera isn't a jib camera. I think that PTZ cameras are best being use the same way as cameras on a tripod. Setup the shots you want cut between them, now with central control of them instead of a camera person at each location. If you need to follow the action in your event, then you want a PTZ control surface and operator, which can cover multiple cameras from a single position.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
thanks 2 users thanked kane for this useful post.
seb666 on 4/21/2018(UTC), mjgraves on 6/13/2018(UTC)
rowby  
#7 Posted : Saturday, April 21, 2018 5:00:56 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Kane for bringing me back to reality :)

Rowby
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