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Is there any way to implement multiple M/E into vMix ? I have tried to use overlays with some success but if anyone has some suggestions that would be great. Trying to do some routing for an event within vMix without renting a switcher. I have a webcast and two different screens. One will be mainly imag (outer screens) and one will be mostly slides (inner) and the web stream will be different yet. Also want to be able to route graphics and prompter to DSMs. The cost of two of the blackmagic 8x cards is actually less than renting a switcher for a single day. I have an 10 core proc and a good GPU so I am interested in trying something like this.
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vMix 4k has four outputs - 2 externals and 2 full screens. Three of these can be switched with shortcut `cut buses' using the the SetOutputFullscreen, SetOutputFullscreen2 and SetOutputExternal2 shortcuts.
There's also NDI outputs. If you need to use two vMixes this could be a way of sending the sdi inputs to both without using another card if the delay was acceptable.
Each input in vMix is really a 10 layer ME so you can have multi layered comps going to several outputs. You can cut the layers on/off using the tick boxes in the multi-view page but you can't do any transitions. There's also the MultiViewOverlay shortcut for this.
A mix tick box on each layer would be useful but currently doesn't exist.
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Peter B wrote:vMix 4k has four outputs - 2 externals and 2 full screens. Three of these can be switched with shortcut `cut buses' using the the SetOutputFullscreen, SetOutputFullscreen2 and SetOutputExternal2 shortcuts.
There's also NDI outputs. If you need to use two vMixes this could be a way of sending the sdi inputs to both without using another card if the delay was acceptable.
Each input in vMix is really a 10 layer ME so you can have multi layered comps going to several outputs. You can cut the layers on/off using the tick boxes in the multi-view page but you can't do any transitions. There's also the MultiViewOverlay shortcut for this.
A mix tick box on each layer would be useful but currently doesn't exist.
So I'm used to barco FSN. I'm used to ridged structure stuff. This software sounds like it's capable of doing what I want but I still don't know how to mix to multiple output. I understand now that routing presets can be accomplished with shortcuts, but switching multiple mixes is still perplexing. I need 2 mixes. I need two T bars. It seems like vMix is a feature release from replacing a proper switcher for me. I want two rows of preview and two take buttons. Question is: can I do this right now in a less optimal way?
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If you want 2 mixes, 2 Tbars then you would need to run 2 instances of vMix. If you need the same sdi source(s) available to both you will need to split them and connect to 2 sdi card inputs.
1 vMix can provide three cut bus outs and 1 tbar mix output.
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Peter B wrote:If you want 2 mixes, 2 Tbars then you would need to run 2 instances of vMix. If you need the same sdi source(s) available to both you will need to split them and connect to 2 sdi card inputs.
1 vMix can provide three cut bus outs and 1 tbar mix output. So that needs to be a new feature in my opinion. Most switchers have at least two full mixers. Running two instances would be awful and I don't know how to make it work with one controller or syncing up playback. Also routing outputs freely would be awkward. Current solution is to rent a proper switcher!
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Mav you need to change the way you think about switching.
I've been a broadcast director who also switches for over 20 years, vMix is a new way of working but in my opinion a workflow improvement over an old fashioned switcher.
First you can't compare a $10,000 hardware switcher with $700 software.
There are multiple ways to achieve what you want, I'm assume you're doing a conference/presentation and want to do a stream, close up cameras in the side screens and slides/pp in a video wall.
To achieve what you want from scratch building 2 systems and buying 2 X-Keys 124 panels will give you the equivalent of a an 8 or 16 input, 8 output, 8 overlay, 2 ME switcher.
If you know how to build a PC this could be achieved for as little as $6500, that's a 2 ME, 8/16 SDI input, 8 key machine for less than a 4 input Tricaster Mini.
You need to start thinking about individual PC's as ME 'modules' with NDI giving you the ability to access all the inputs on either bus.
If you're trying to be frugal and use a single vMix machine there are ways to do this but you may need to compromise on transition options in the screens.
Ultimately you're criticizing a $3000 machine for not doing what a $10,000-$20,000 piece of hardware can do.
The simple answer is it can but not if you want something for nothing.
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First off, I changed my display name, feel free to refer to me by my name. It sounds a bit weird being called my company name :)
And really what I'm getting at is that this is a feature request. This has me leaning towards a tricaster (which we all know is 100% software just like vMix) tricaster has 4 M/E for under $50k. That compares favorably to a bulky barco with only 2 for double the price.
I actually have multiple vMix rig but using two at once is like raid 0... Higher likelihood of going wrong. I don't want to have to keep saving and recalling input when I yeah them either.
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And to be clear... It's not like vMix hasn't been influenced before by user feedback. If enough people have this use case it may make business sense. The hardware in my PC is capable and vMix are excellent coders. Just today I had to run wirecast and the MacBook was at half load. This is with a quad core and a 950m. I pulled out my Lenovo and used three separate crappy USB converters on a 940m and wasn't even touching the system resources along with sub frame latency. It's a blast using this software and I want to bring it in to my larger productions... But I need my mixers!
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What about an ATEM 2ME 4K for $4k and use vMix for replays.
There's also the ATEM 4ME for $6K.
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Mark, Take a look at the Feature request "Sub-group" virtual input for multiple inputs (like an AUX bus). I believe Guillaume, who posted it, is nowadays more active in Streaming Idiot's Facebook group and perhaps easier to reach there. To state that Tricasters are 100% software is far from the truth. Adding "we all know" does not make it truer. Furthermore, in my view your statement "Most switchers have at least two full mixers" is far from the reality I see. Consider finetuning your arguments if you want to be taken seriously. That said, I do understand what you are after. Both Peter B and NHT points to how it can be solved with vMix as is. I've used similar approaches. Personally, for a large event production, I would run multiple PC's and NDI. If nothing else just to reduce the risk stemming from a single point of failure. cheers :)
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Respectfully, Richard, im having a hard time understanding how this conversation is at all beneficial. To me it seems like a straight up missing feature. Interesting. This was posted over a year ago and no action. Perhaps it is not a serious concern within the community of the software or perhaps it is a larger change than I'm imagining it is. Quote:
To state that Tricasters are 100% software is far from the truth. Adding "we all know" does not make it truer.
The post linked above also asserts that TriCaster is a purely software environment as well - Im going to have to follow up still to see if I'm wrong - But last time I checked this was the case. Maybe they have added some new stuff but to me a Tricaster is a software box. Quote:
Furthermore, in my view your statement "Most switchers have at least two full mixers" is far from the reality I see. Consider finetuning your arguments if you want to be taken seriously.
Ok, I suppose I come from a different background. A quick search on B&H indeed shows a majority of best selling switching products are single mixer. I have used the V-1SDI before and it overheated on me. I tend to stay away from that device now. In my day to day freelance work I encounter more events that use larger switchers and that is what I based my assertion on. I like being taken seriously, and I regret that I am not being taken seriously. Perhaps I can can be extended the benefit of being both incorrect and taken seriously? Quote:
That said, I do understand what you are after. Both Peter B and NHT points to how it can be solved with vMix as is. I've used similar approaches. Personally, for a large event production, I would run multiple PC's and NDI. If nothing else just to reduce the risk stemming from a single point of failure.
Again, can someone explain to me how using multiple interdependent machines is less likely to cause failure? Take this situation: I have two screen things going on stage. Sometimes I want imag on the outside and slides on the inside but sometimes I want imag all around. I get myself in a situation where my routing preset has one PC outputting NDI from PC A on to a screen attached to PC B and NDI from PC B outputting to a screen attached to PC A. Now, everything being equal, the PCs running the same software and executing the same code there is a measurable MTBF for components and a software what-if contingency for bad code (which, let's assume is linked to some edge case bug and will cause vMix to crash) Now if any one of those PCs or instances of vMix goes down I have no output to either display. Add to that the complexity of needing to recreate all work multiple times. If the customer has a new bug I need to copy that graphic and position and size to the other machine, which has another keyboard and mouse. That, or, I need to run a dedicated output with that bug and do the DSK on the other vMix machine. It seems complicated and failure prone to me. Which is why currently I will not use VMix in this situation. I need to look more into the blackmagic switchers. Last I looked they topped out at 2 M/E. I know blackmagic also came out with some cameras recently which require their own brand switcher to operate CCU (and I hate that kind of proprietary stuff. It gives me a bad opinion of their brand) By the time you add scalers and recorders and play out and a router and a big rack to that setup it's bound to be closer to the tricaster in price (especially considering the tricaster for $50k has a control panel), but it's promising. Then again I really prefer the all inclusive software setup like vMix and avoiding that rack nonsense.
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What I don't understand here is that you seem to be comparing a very keenly priced software option with a broadcast spec 2+ ME hardware switcher.
One costs $7k the other costs $60,000, I don't understand why you're comparing the 2?
Is it that you want to purchase your own switcher rather than hire?
Regarding using 2 PC's to create the equivalent of a 2 ME desk and it's reliability there are pros and cons to both.
Most broadcast hardware switchers will hold the last SDI input if their OS/menu system crashes, which is nice as long as the source you're fixed on while you reboot is appropriate, where as vMix wont.
Having said that, if you get a power supply failure on a hardware desk you're dead in the water. If you lose one vMix machine, there may be an interruption in output but you can nearly always do a streamlined version of the same project on one machine.
I like you would love to see multiple ME's within vMix but I'm not a programmer so I have no idea what issues and complexities this entails.
To clear up a few things, a 2ME ATEM rack unit is great value at $4,000 for the number of SDI inputs, you could almost forgive it for only having 2 media players (that require an additional PC) and no stills store, until you add the control surface which is another $17,000!!!
Tricasters use some PC components but are full of bespoke hardware which is why no one has ever managed to hack one, the software is written around Newtek's hardware.
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mavchicago wrote:Quote:
To state that Tricasters are 100% software is far from the truth. Adding "we all know" does not make it truer.
The post linked above also asserts that TriCaster is a purely software environment as well - Im going to have to follow up still to see if I'm wrong - But last time I checked this was the case. Maybe they have added some new stuff but to me a Tricaster is a software box. Just to get the correct information on this quote. Overall, TriCaster is a software solution. NewTek does make the video IO hardware that works with it, so there is some custom hardware in the box. The custom hardware does give you some nice features like hardware fail-safe and allows for very tight integration between the hardware and software. But the video IO hardware is just that, video IO. What makes the TriCaster happen is all software and GPU. NewTek doesn't sell the software as standalone installer like vMix does, so it isn't 100% software purchase if you mean it like that. NewTek used to do this a long time ago with the Video Toaster (well there was still the VT hardware, but the computer was DIY), but with the TriCaster system as it has been easier to support and upgrade systems when you know what the in the field configurations are. Now back your regularly scheduled program... Kane Peterson NewTek
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