logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
VjMikey  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:45:27 AM(UTC)
VjMikey

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Best, The Netherlands

Thanks: 10 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hii,

I Wanna buy a ptz camera with the ndi workflow, and I am choosing between ptz optics and NewTek ptz.

What are the pro’s and cons delay, quality?? And is it possible to pan/tilt in the vmix software?


Do you guys help me out to choose the best solution? And I am using decklink quad 2 card for productions and I don’t know what the delay between them are.


Thankss,
Mike
Netherlands 🇳🇱

rigocalin  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:27:38 AM(UTC)
rigocalin

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/23/2017(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Romania

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hi,

I have tested both recently.
The PtzOptics does not have the NDI upgrade available yet so I pulled the stream via RTSP (H264 - MPEG4).
[On a side note the NDI upgrade for PtzOptics is introducing NDI 3.0, aka NDI-HX, aka improved H264. That means that NDI-HX compared to NDI will be a middle ground between pure RTSP/H264 born delays and NDI (max 1 frame delay). Some extra delay is to be expected from NDI-HX according to their spec sheets also. Also NDI = 100Mbits, NDI-HX = 10Mbits.]
Depending on your particular workflow the delays can be accepted. But if you wish to stream to a live audience (conference center style, filming and displaying on the big screen the live performance in the same room) pure NDI might work but I would recommend to stick to SDI for this.

For Live Streaming only, where you can accept delays, you can go with either.
This was my use case. This is why I'm able to use RTSP currently.

There are some delays in using RTSP/H264 vs NDI, but in my opinion and my particular use case, it does not make sense to pay the premium.
These are the short comparison results betwin the NewTech NDI Camera and PTZOptics 20 SDI Gen2.

Delay:
-Sub 1 sec compared to what happened on the stage for PtzOptics (aprox 600ms)
-NDI vs RTSP = strangely it was almost the same!!! - maybe about 70-100ms

PTZ from Vmix (ONVIF):
-It work straight forward for PTZOptics (for setting and calling presets it works great! Please note that you will probably need a PTZ controller also if you need to move the cams outside of your presets for LIVE performance, house of worship...etc). We have both vmix presets and PtzOptics IP Controller.
-It did not work for NewTech NDI Camera... You can control it via the NDI Studio Monitor and mouse but that might be ok for testing but nothing more.

If you have SDI cameras currently, you might have to add some delays (in frames) on each of the SDI inputs to match then with NDI or RTSP.
Do not forget to re-sync audio also!

I have a mix of both currently and it works just fine after doing all of the tweaks.
thanks 1 user thanked rigocalin for this useful post.
VjMikey on 2/21/2018(UTC)
VjMikey  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 8:20:31 AM(UTC)
VjMikey

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Best, The Netherlands

Thanks: 10 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Okay niceee!

So the NDI-HX has more delay then the NDI.


I have the birddog Tested and the delay is les to the sdi. It has the same delay.

Has the Ptz optics and the newtek Ptz NDI HX? Or pure NDI like birddog
kane  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 8:36:16 AM(UTC)
kane

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/24/2016(UTC)
Posts: 329
Location: Chicago, IL

Was thanked: 140 time(s) in 94 post(s)
VjMikey wrote:
Okay niceee!

So the NDI-HX has more delay then the NDI.


I have the birddog Tested and the delay is les to the sdi. It has the same delay.

Has the Ptz optics and the newtek Ptz NDI HX? Or pure NDI like birddog


NDI|HX uses a long GOP compression method and will be slightly higher than full bandwidth NDI which is 1 frame of latency in software solutions. For using a long GOP compression type, NDI|HX offers very low latency. All PTZ cameras currently on the market that support NDI (NewTek, PTZ Optics, Panasonic) are using NDI|HX.

Overall the NewTek PTZ1 and the PTZ Optics cameras probably are pretty close in specs and features. However, one difference I do know is that the NewTek PTZ1 does support fractional frame rates which can be important if you are operating in NTSC countries.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
rinaldo  
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 22, 2018 9:04:05 PM(UTC)
rinaldo

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/29/2016(UTC)
Posts: 64
Man
Location: Italy

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
kane wrote:
VjMikey wrote:
Okay niceee!

So the NDI-HX has more delay then the NDI.


I have the birddog Tested and the delay is les to the sdi. It has the same delay.

Has the Ptz optics and the newtek Ptz NDI HX? Or pure NDI like birddog


NDI|HX uses a long GOP compression method and will be slightly higher than full bandwidth NDI which is 1 frame of latency in software solutions. For using a long GOP compression type, NDI|HX offers very low latency. All PTZ cameras currently on the market that support NDI (NewTek, PTZ Optics, Panasonic) are using NDI|HX.

Overall the NewTek PTZ1 and the PTZ Optics cameras probably are pretty close in specs and features. However, one difference I do know is that the NewTek PTZ1 does support fractional frame rates which can be important if you are operating in NTSC countries.

Kane Peterson
NewTek


Hi Kane, today I was watching PTZ Optics live stage on Facebook where they said that are still waiting Newtek approval to delivery NDI firmware for GEN2 cameras. Is that true?
Because many people are waiting...
JW  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 23, 2018 3:46:28 PM(UTC)
JW

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/25/2017(UTC)
Posts: 41

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 5 post(s)
kane wrote:
All PTZ cameras currently on the market that support NDI (NewTek, PTZ Optics, Panasonic) are using NDI|HX.


Can these cameras also use the standard NDI protocol?
Bandwidth is not an issue for me, but low-latency the more, because I want to display the cameras live on screens.
Frank Broughton  
#7 Posted : Thursday, March 8, 2018 8:49:24 AM(UTC)
Frank Broughton

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2018(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: WNY

Thanks: 1 times
NewTek NDI PTZ supports up to 1080p 60, PTZ Optics NDI only up to 1080p 30 - Correct Kane?
kane  
#8 Posted : Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:48:05 PM(UTC)
kane

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/24/2016(UTC)
Posts: 329
Location: Chicago, IL

Was thanked: 140 time(s) in 94 post(s)
These cameras cannot support the full NDI protocol, just the NDI-HX version. There are SDI/HDMI outputs on these cameras, which could be better for IMAG workflows.

As for max video support, I know the NewTek PTZ1 supports up to 1080p60. I'm not familiar with all of the specs of the PTZ Optics models.
PTZOptics  
#9 Posted : Friday, March 9, 2018 11:19:51 AM(UTC)
PTZOptics

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/16/2015(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Philadelphia

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 6 post(s)
Hi Guys,

Just to clarify PTZOptics has a couple different NDI-HX camera models.

The SDI PTZ cameras available are 12X and 20X lenses support up to 1080p60fps and 720p120fps. I do not believe vMix currently supports 720p@120fps.

The ZCAM models and USB models which offer firmware upgrades to support NDI-HX support up to 1080p30fps.

Here is a list of all NDI-HX cameras from PTZOptics:

PT12X-NDI-WH
PT12X-NDI-GY
PT-20X-NDI-WH
PT-20X-NDI-GY
PTVL-NDI-ZCAM
PT20X-NDI-ZCAM
thanks 2 users thanked PTZOptics for this useful post.
rowby on 3/9/2018(UTC), RobLambert on 1/17/2019(UTC)
Torg  
#10 Posted : Saturday, April 27, 2019 12:03:06 AM(UTC)
Torg

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/31/2017(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Italy

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
So today the only PTZ full NDI options are from BirdDog?
zenvideo  
#11 Posted : Saturday, April 27, 2019 2:21:32 AM(UTC)
zenvideo

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/13/2014(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man
United Kingdom
Location: Manchester, UK

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 95 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Torg Go to Quoted Post
So today the only PTZ full NDI options are from BirdDog?

Yes, unless you use the SDI/HDMI output from the camera and add an external NDI converter like those from BirdDog, Magewell or NewTek.
thanks 1 user thanked zenvideo for this useful post.
Torg on 5/1/2019(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.