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lael  
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:25:37 AM(UTC)
lael

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If Newtek can make an app on a phone that can encode NDI, does that mean that theoretically something like this: https://www.aliexpress.c...a2g0s.9042311.0.0.PASg1P

could have an app on it that would receive and output an NDI stream?

Currently around 60USD for 11.11 sales if someone knows how to make it happen :)
NHT  
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:50:56 AM(UTC)
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Interesting theory, the box you linked to only has HDMI out so that wouldn't work.

This box might work if the Newtek app works on it and it can recognize the HDMI in as a camera.

Amlogic-S905-Quad-core-Cortex-A53-2-0GHz-64bit
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kane  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:45:08 PM(UTC)
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The NDI SDK doesn't have decode support for ARM based devices at this time. Right now you need a x86 based CPU to decode.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
NHT  
#4 Posted : Sunday, November 12, 2017 1:55:49 PM(UTC)
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I'm confused Kane, the camera app says it works on most Android systems.

'System requirements - Android mobile devices require Googleâ„¢ Android 4.1 (Jelly Bean) or later. Compatible with most common Android smartphone and tablet devices'.
cgarwood  
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 12, 2017 5:06:01 PM(UTC)
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The app is for cameras, so an NDI transmitter (encode) app, not an NDI receiver (decode). The NDI SDK doesn't support NDI receive (decode) on ARM devices yet. Not sure why they only added transmit support for ARM and not receive, because NDI receive on ARM would be incredibly useful.
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lael on 11/12/2017(UTC)
lael  
#6 Posted : Sunday, November 12, 2017 6:40:02 PM(UTC)
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Interesting that it is possible to encode, but not decode.
NHT  
#7 Posted : Sunday, November 12, 2017 6:46:53 PM(UTC)
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cgarwood wrote:
The app is for cameras, so an NDI transmitter (encode) app, not an NDI receiver (decode). The NDI SDK doesn't support NDI receive (decode) on ARM devices yet. Not sure why they only added transmit support for ARM and not receive, because NDI receive on ARM would be incredibly useful.


I appreciate that but I think what the OP was suggesting is that if the mobile app can encode and send the camera then a similar spec system running Android could potentially do the same thing with an internal source.
livepad  
#8 Posted : Monday, November 13, 2017 5:22:49 AM(UTC)
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I have tried the NewTek Camera app on the Zidoo X8 (very similar to the 9s) and whilst it looks like it might almost work - it doesn't.

Most likely it could be made to work with a bit of tweaking by NewTek's Android app developers.

I seem to recall that it crashed - but it appeared to be when looking for camera 0. I have a feeling the HDMI input on the Zidoo is camera 1.

I sent the crash log to NewTek in April.
livepad  
#9 Posted : Monday, November 13, 2017 5:36:57 AM(UTC)
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And for anyone reading the title of this thread - there are options for cheap 'receivers' - but note the caveat that the latest version of the NewTek Studio Monitor has increased system requirements compared to the earlier NDI Video Monitor - so for low end PCs - keep a copy of the NDI Video Monitor. Another option in the pipeline is FFPLAY which now supports NDI and will very likely run on these older PCs

You can read about one low cost PC tested as an NDI Receiver as part of a this blog: Testing very low end hardware and rapid setup

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RobLambert on 11/18/2017(UTC)
DWAM  
#10 Posted : Monday, November 13, 2017 6:57:22 AM(UTC)
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If you want to receive NDI feeds on cheap devices, just use Windows 10 tablets.

I'm not sure what it's worth, I'm not even sure NDI was designed for this, but I can play pure NDI feeds with a chinese tablet (Onda v919 Air CH) I bought less than $200 3 years ago.

Guillaume
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stigaard on 11/13/2017(UTC)
kane  
#11 Posted : Monday, November 13, 2017 11:31:32 AM(UTC)
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NHT wrote:
I appreciate that but I think what the OP was suggesting is that if the mobile app can encode and send the camera then a similar spec system running Android could potentially do the same thing with an internal source.


From what I read he was asking for output.

Android (and iOS) devices have restrictions which do not allow an application to 'scrape' the screen, it isn't possible to write an app that will be accepted in the stores for these operating systems. If you want the screen turned into NDI, you need to use AirPlay/GoogleCast/MiraCast software receiver and convert that into NDI.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
lael  
#12 Posted : Monday, November 13, 2017 9:38:49 PM(UTC)
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definitely looking for cheap decoding options - eg: for running multiple screens around an event.

ie: receive NDI over network and display it on screens.
DWAM  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:33:09 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
definitely looking for cheap decoding options - eg: for running multiple screens around an event.

ie: receive NDI over network and display it on screens.


NDI is really not the good protocol for doing things like this. NDI is for production, not delivery, hence the issue you're facing...

Use Multicast or HDMI over IP for example.

Guillaume
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mjgraves on 11/15/2017(UTC)
livepad  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:30:26 AM(UTC)
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lael wrote:
definitely looking for cheap decoding options - eg: for running multiple screens around an event.

ie: receive NDI over network and display it on screens.


Have you thought about using a WebServer to repeat the NDI stream to simpler HTML receivers ? for example using NewTek NDI Connect Pro WebServer ?
kane  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:53:57 AM(UTC)
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livepad wrote:
lael wrote:
definitely looking for cheap decoding options - eg: for running multiple screens around an event.

ie: receive NDI over network and display it on screens.


Have you thought about using a WebServer to repeat the NDI stream to simpler HTML receivers ? for example using NewTek NDI Connect Pro WebServer ?


I was just thinking about this solution. The NDI® webserver in NewTek Connect Pro will allow you to view NDI channels using a web browser, however it is video only, there is no audio.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
livepad  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 15, 2017 5:44:01 AM(UTC)
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livepad wrote:
lael wrote:
definitely looking for cheap decoding options - eg: for running multiple screens around an event.

ie: receive NDI over network and display it on screens.


Have you thought about using a WebServer to repeat the NDI stream to simpler HTML receivers ? for example using NewTek NDI Connect Pro WebServer ?


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And as a quick plug, stay tuned for Sienna "NDI WebLink" for macOS which will be in the app store shortly and provides a Web Browser compatible video stream of any NDI Source on the network - works with iPhones, iPads, Android Tablets, Smart TVs etc.
Information will be added here once it has been formally released:
http://sienna.tv/ndi
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RobLambert on 11/18/2017(UTC)
lael  
#17 Posted : Thursday, November 16, 2017 3:59:49 PM(UTC)
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What would be the advantages of multicast or HDMI over IP?

If I understand correctly - NDI uses mDNS to find the stream, but only sends the necessary packets which reduces network traffic over the network compared to multicast. ok - so the issue with distributing via NDI is that each receiver adds another stream reducing bandwidth? If we were to use multicast - what video codec / format would you be likely to use, and how would you receive it?

HDMI over IP - so you mean output to an HDMI splitter and from there to ethernet baluns? eg: http://www.altronics.com...n-extension-transmitter/ ? The last time I tried a different product / same idea there was around 1.5 seconds latency. Have you had better success with them?

One of the advantages I like about NDI is that we could run multiple video streams on each screen - eg: video on one half and a match schedule on the other half - in two studio monitor windows.


DWAM wrote:
Quote:
definitely looking for cheap decoding options - eg: for running multiple screens around an event.

ie: receive NDI over network and display it on screens.


NDI is really not the good protocol for doing things like this. NDI is for production, not delivery, hence the issue you're facing...

Use Multicast or HDMI over IP for example.

Guillaume

lael  
#18 Posted : Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:23:08 PM(UTC)
lael

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This is pretty cool. So, it worked perfectly (with the given stream) for local (network ?) NDI, but not for NDI.cloud decoding?

livepad wrote:
And for anyone reading the title of this thread - there are options for cheap 'receivers' - but note the caveat that the latest version of the NewTek Studio Monitor has increased system requirements compared to the earlier NDI Video Monitor - so for low end PCs - keep a copy of the NDI Video Monitor. Another option in the pipeline is FFPLAY which now supports NDI and will very likely run on these older PCs

You can read about one low cost PC tested as an NDI Receiver as part of a this blog: Testing very low end hardware and rapid setup

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livepad  
#19 Posted : Friday, November 17, 2017 6:14:31 AM(UTC)
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lael wrote:
This is pretty cool. So, it worked perfectly (with the given stream) for local (network ?) NDI, but not for NDI.cloud decoding?


Actually it turned out that the performance issue with the Sienna.Cloud decoding was actually due to a Windows 10 performance issue, not this hardware.
So this little box with Windows 7 or 8 (or with Ubuntu) would probably be find for Sienna.Cloud decoding - although that needs further testing to confirm.

For basic NDI Monitoring, we tested using the older NewTek Video Monitor and Full HD sources, playing fullscreen via HDMI out, and the results were pretty good. Note that the newer NewTek Studio Monitor does *not* work on this hardware since its using some CPU instructions not supported by this processor. However, any other more standard NDI Monitor should work fine - the NewTek special commands are nothing specific to NDI - just optional functions they chose to use for accelerated decode or composition of overlays which are not available on lower end CPUs, and they havent kept any failback functionality for simpler processors. Note that we did not test HX


lael  
#20 Posted : Friday, November 17, 2017 8:19:56 AM(UTC)
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Note that we did not test HX - which is more CPU intensive to decode?
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