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liveshell X or VidiU - reliable way or workaround to input from remote location
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Hello everyone,
Thank you for this great product and forum. I red a lot of similar threads, but want to be sure if I got it right. We have small budget (planing to buy product in the next week or two) and I was looking and Cerevo liveshell X, VidiU and LiveU Solo (much more money, but still not like Teradek Bonds's). We want to send video from our remote camera (HDMI out) to vmix and then to stream to our CDN. Most of the time we need it at one location (sport arena, interviews, live games) with big distance between cameraman and laptop, but there will be events from outer cities as well. At first was thinking for NDI solutions, Spark, Birddog (to put local LAN WiFi extenders, etc.), but this won't help when we are in the outer city or location, as there is no NDI encoder yet to stream online from a box (NDI is not made for such things anyway)
I was thinking to stream from liveshell X to CDN (it uses wowza) and to pull this to vmix somehow, but how reliable is this? What will be the best way? RTSP, HTPP input? Browser capture of that hidden feed to CDN? With only one 4G connection (good upload speed) how those small encoders will work and be stable. Do you think liveshell is the better one, i see that have good price and positive feedback? We can't afford decoders and HDMI output at the moment. Some of the TV stations around have Teredek Bond's, but still for this money I see freezing streams, choppy video etc. Looking for stable solution and hope you can share some experience and how you are doing it with similar price range products.
Thank you
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Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,721   Location: Bordeaux, France Thanks: 243 times
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Hi Quote:Most of the time we need it at one location (sport arena, interviews, live games) with big distance between cameraman and laptop, but there will be events from outer cities as well I guess you understand that "long distance" and "cheap" are not close friends. Especially with wireless or over the internet. The best solution when the cam is in the same location as the control room is to go for cables, either SDI (up to 200m) or fiber (up to kms). Very reliable, pretty cheap, no latency. Nobad surprise... If you want wireless, expect to need big money in IT (wireless) infrastructure. What you save up on one side, you'll lose it on the other. I don't know what your production expectations are, but if you want good results, you need good stuff. As an example I used the Teradek Bond 300 last week and lost signal very frequently at 50 meters as soon as somebody walked and stood across the LOS... I don't see a single solution that could provide a good answer to your request. Different use cases = different gear... FYI: I have had good results with a very cheap chinese encoder from u8vision that supports many streaming protocols Check http://stores.ebay.com/u8visionI send to the full product page on purpose. There are variants with or without wireless or even 4G support. The one I have is this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/...-broadcast-/262728946909If you're smart and think a little, you can do a lot with such a device along with free softwares... Another solution: NDI over internet 2 service offer so far, both in free beta https://www.ndi.cloud/secure.htmlhttps://www.medialooks.com/ndiWhy don't you go for rental on professional bonding solutions? You mentioned LiveU, I much prefer Aviwest. Check also TVU Networks, Mushroom, and many more... Sorry I don't reply precisely to your questions, but you're too vague... Too many use cases... Too many options... Take a single situation, not many at the same time. I could write a 100 pages book to cover all the aspects you mentionned. I won't... Guillaume
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 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
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Thanks for your answer Guillaume,
To be more specific, we can't use cables (SDI, fiber) as this camera is moving around the field. I know about medialooks NDI solution, but if I got it right I need laptop and capture card and we want to be wireless as it is camera and cameraman only (for stand up's, interviews etc, more static shots). That's way I was looking at liveshell X and in this way to input somehow that stream inside vmix and to be as stable as possible. Do you think this will work as I will stream let's say 720p 3mbit/s and then screen capture that feed or somehow import this from our CDN. So it is one man, one camera and device that need to stream directly from camera and decent quality. I understand that such things are made with more expensive tools, but still maybe this is possible...
Thank you
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Hi Guillaume
I'm still trying to figure out a wireless HDMI camera for my studio. I see the nyrius aries pro has gone way up in price . Would this be a suitable option?
Regards cormac
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you can look to vidiu pro and add 4g connections using iphone, i never have uses but is a cheap version of the bonds, yes the teradek bonds not are the best but i think that all of 4g encoder have some problems, the last weekend we rent one of our bonds for a autonomic television to cover a fire in the forest i can send you some raw footage, we also works with liveu lu500 and i dont know is the problem is that they uses more than their data plans, but usually in places with good signal have every x time some frames at xtreme low bitrate/resolution. you also can look to some way to transfer the video files or make playout in places with good signal and stopped. OR for my the best option: DWAM wrote:Why don't you go for rental on professional bonding solutions?
You mentioned LiveU, I much prefer Aviwest. Remember that you have a huge delay, and the cameraman and audiovisual producer need a good comunications and always remember the delay. DWAM wrote:As an example I used the Teradek Bond 300 last week and lost signal very frequently at 50 meters as soon as somebody walked and stood across the LOS... Yes the two weeks ago we need another wireless camera and rend a teradek BOLT 300 and in the test ~40 meters in the event 10-20meters, while our CVW work much better
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Joined: 4/28/2017(UTC)
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Location: Philadelphia
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Hi sobx,
Shoot me a PM if you are interested in looking into the LiveU bonded option. We rent out these units and might be able to help.
Joel
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,721 Location: Bordeaux, France Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
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Quote:To be more specific, we can't use cables (SDI, fiber) as this camera is moving around the field. I know about medialooks NDI solution, but if I got it right I need laptop and capture card and we want to be wireless as it is camera and cameraman only (for stand up's, interviews etc, more static shots). That's way I was looking at liveshell X and in this way to input somehow that stream inside vmix and to be as stable as possible. Do you think this will work as I will stream let's say 720p 3mbit/s and then screen capture that feed or somehow import this from our CDN. So it is one man, one camera and device that need to stream directly from camera and decent quality. I understand that such things are made with more expensive tools, but still maybe this is possible... I quite don't understand what workflow you imagined here with the Cerevo device, the CDN, the screen capture and so on. IMHO such a workflow is far too "complex" (not to say aberrant) to be reliable. Wireless video is a difficult thing to do, it has to be simple. Why don't you go for a Newtek Spark converter. I understand you're not concerned by image quality much and are ready for high compression. This is what Spark does : high compression for wireless with direct ingestion into vMix via NDI. If you have a proper wireless infrastructure it can work well. I believe it's possible to use Spark wirelessly for less than $500 in IT equipments for some use cases. As of spending $700 for the Cerevo unit, I suggested an alternative encoder for less than $200 that will certainly do the job as well/good. Here again everything relies on IT wireless infrastructure. I would certainly prefer to put money in IT which is the key for success than spending more for an encoder which maybe looks better but is very unlikely to do a better job in terms of encoding... And again I don't understand why you talk about CDN and stuff... Do wireless video on your LAN, use a streaming protocol that vMix supports natively (like RTSP or UDP/TS) and you're ready to roll. Keep it simple. It's hard enough...
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,721 Location: Bordeaux, France Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
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Quote:Hi Guillaume
I'm still trying to figure out a wireless HDMI camera for my studio. I see the nyrius aries pro has gone way up in price . Would this be a suitable option?
Regards cormac Hi Cormac I'm really not a big fan of wireless video, especially not for a project like yours where I don't see what's the problem with running cables in a studio. I know many seem to work with Nyrius devices which are not designed for live production (but rather signal transmission between TV sets and STBs for domestic usage). It seems to work but you'd better search the forum for more info. I don't use such devices. IMO, wireless video costs real money if you want quality and reliability. I'm talking several thousands of dollars/euros. More and more wireless gadgets under $500 are released and seem to be usable in some situations but they do not provide uncompressed signal transission and have a lot of latency. Not my cup of tea... There are a lot of threads about this in the forum, take time to search and study. Guillaume
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 3/21/2016(UTC)
Posts: 77
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Hi Guillaume . Sensible advice as usual thanks.
The reason i,m trying to find a single wireless cam solution is is that the studio is over 4 floors. I need a roving camera so that a presenter can link items whilst walking between rooms to intro artists in different areas .all other cams are wired and even include the CCTV system in the building as well.
The CCTV system has actually been a great benefit in this regard. We have about 11 TV's in the building and taking a composite output from a blackmagic card allows us to cue every room with a video feed without any additional complex wiring . The CCTV switcher handles all of that and the quality for cueing is fine.
Regards Cormac .
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