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dtmmedia  
#1 Posted : Sunday, March 28, 2021 11:24:13 AM(UTC)
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Is anyone aware of a way to insert external audio processing on either an input or buss? For example, I'd like to send vMix Call inputs to an external console via Dante then return them back on the same input. I know I could theoretically route each call audio to a buss and then return it back as a separate input, but it seems like that could turn into a mess. Some DAW's have a plugin for external audio I/O, is anyone aware of a way to do something like that within vMix?
cgi  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2021 7:30:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dtmmedia Go to Quoted Post
Is anyone aware of a way to insert external audio processing on either an input or buss? For example, I'd like to send vMix Call inputs to an external console via Dante then return them back on the same input. I know I could theoretically route each call audio to a buss and then return it back as a separate input, but it seems like that could turn into a mess. Some DAW's have a plugin for external audio I/O, is anyone aware of a way to do something like that within vMix?


I had the idea to do this also, so I'm chipping in here with a "+1". I've seen a number of threads asking about breaking out the audio chain (called a channel insert on a traditional mixer) on inputs before for the purpose of processing the audio externally, but the results of those threads is either that it's not resolved or that it's suggested all processing be done in VSTs or using vMix's own effects. I'm sure that suits many people fine, but it isn't suitable for high quality productions with a dedicated sound person mixing everything, including different IEM mixes (in our case usually with Yamaha QL series and Waves server handling both vMix calls and local mics, as well as video playback audio etc).

Currently our method is to use the buses, which is inconvenient for a couple of reasons - one is that it chews up buses which otherwise might be needed for other tasks in a complicated production, even if you reduce it to only 4 buses for vMix calls by using the two channels in each bus for a separate call. The other is that it breaks the mix minus. The end result is callers have to sit in their own bus and listen to each other's unprocessed audio, and be fed an "all calls minus" PGM feed giving them a bad viewing (listening) experience of the show. It also means mutes have to be handled in vMix. Adding a second vMix box for calls only solves the issue of consuming many buses.

I found that there is an old and experimental VST2 plugin which does exactly what you (and I) would like - Bridge VST to ASIO and back, but it's VST2, so no use in VMix (http://www.pcjv.de/vst-plugins/effect-plugins/utilities/). I also thought about abusing the ReaStream plugin and using a plugin host to break out to ASIO, but that's VST2 only also (https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/).

It's gotten to the point where I've considered looking into writing my own plugin, but I'm not much of a coder and have zero experience writing a VST3 plugin. It will take me days of fighting with syntax and build environments and stuff that someone with experience could probably do in half an hour.

However, one downside of the VST3 ASIO bridge approach is that it will cause problems with vMix using the same ASIO driver directly. It would either require dedicating a device for this purpose, or running everything through a virtual ASIO device such as SAR (https://github.com/eiz/SynchronousAudioRouter) or the HiFI VB-Cable or similar (https://vb-audio.com/Cable/). That both adds latency and also a point of failure. I'd rather not be adding random software routers into the mix (heh heh), as using VST3 is "bad enough".

For that reason the best solution would be if vMix could support channel inserts natively. Then the same device (RedNet Dante in our case) can be used globally in vMix and there's no random software routers and VST hosts etc adding more chance of dropouts.

I would finally like to add, that while it's tempting to just reply again with "use vMix for mixing!", please understand that there are productions with high production values and split operation that just cannot do that, and that there are a number of production houses using vMix even in this small country who have run up against this situation, so it's in no way an unreasonable request, even if it's not something you yourself can imagine needing.

Sorry for the brain dump but I'm hoping that maybe one day someone out there understands and a solution appears :).
ThommiTechnik  
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2021 6:35:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cgi Go to Quoted Post

I had the idea to do this also, so I'm chipping in here with a "+1". I've seen a number of threads asking about breaking out the audio chain (called a channel insert on a traditional mixer) on inputs before for the purpose of processing the audio externally, but the results of those threads is either that it's not resolved or that it's suggested all processing be done in VSTs or using vMix's own effects. I'm sure that suits many people fine, but it isn't suitable for high quality productions with a dedicated sound person mixing everything, including different IEM mixes (in our case usually with Yamaha QL series and Waves server handling both vMix calls and local mics, as well as video playback audio etc).

(snip)

For that reason the best solution would be if vMix could support channel inserts natively. Then the same device (RedNet Dante in our case) can be used globally in vMix and there's no random software routers and VST hosts etc adding more chance of dropouts.

I would finally like to add, that while it's tempting to just reply again with "use vMix for mixing!", please understand that there are productions with high production values and split operation that just cannot do that, and that there are a number of production houses using vMix even in this small country who have run up against this situation, so it's in no way an unreasonable request, even if it's not something you yourself can imagine needing.

Sorry for the brain dump but I'm hoping that maybe one day someone out there understands and a solution appears :).


Just a +3, I'm also struggling and figuring out, how to do. For me it's Dante, to insert, bring to a desk, and back. Works with buses, but too few ;)
MaryStanley  
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2021 7:15:58 PM(UTC)
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VST3 marks an important milestone in audio technology with a completely rewritten VST also allows easy integration of external equipment, allowing you to put together Instead of always processing input signals, VST3 plug-ins can apply their Their I/O configuration can dynamically adapt to the channel configuration.
TalkToWendys
JoostH  
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2021 8:00:22 PM(UTC)
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Perhaps I miss the subtleties of this request as I'm not an advanced vMix user. But it is easy to add VST plugins in vMix on every input and bus. Click the settings wheel of the input/bus > plugins
mtone  
#6 Posted : Friday, April 23, 2021 12:02:00 AM(UTC)
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inserts should be there in vMix.. for hardware insert to function most effectively it would probably be best as a native part of vMix rather than a plugin.. also it wouldnt only be adding output/input driver dialog, there should be compensation for latency round trip which is the I/O of the interface and then the latency on any external FX device.

latency shouldnt be too bad with DANTE i wouldnt think, but if you are using analog out/in it would be more noticeable.. either way both would need delay compensation.. I havent used this feature in a long time but from memory DAWs calibrate the round trip via a ping test.. send a short transient signal out/in, measure the delay and then use that as the offset.

makes me wonder how difficult this would be to add to vMix given all the other latency stuff it already has to handle ? its a feature that should be there in any professional audio setup though..
ThommiTechnik  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 26, 2021 12:59:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JoostH Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps I miss the subtleties of this request as I'm not an advanced vMix user. But it is easy to add VST plugins in vMix on every input and bus. Click the settings wheel of the input/bus > plugins


Imagine of a talkshow: nowadays we have around 12 mics for the participants in the venue, and then there are clips from EVS and/or CasparCG, music from EVS and/or CasparCG. Normally also ambience, but forget about this until summer 2021 ;) And you have the remote callers via SRT. So, all mics, clips, music is on the audio mixer (LAWO, sometimes Harrison MixBus 32) anyway.
So we're using two instances of vMix, one for the mixing of vision, and one only for SRT or NDI Inputs. These are nowadays going on the buses A-G to separate all audio-inputs, and are routed via DANTE to the audio-mixer, and via Dante routed to the first instance of vMix. So,if there would be an insert in audio, it would be easier, and much less NDI routing (the video-calls are routed via NDI to the first instance for the pictures).

VST Plugins, to be honest, is really nice for smaller productions, but means more processing power on the vMix-Machine. I ry to avoid this.

Cheers, Thomas
KennyStokes  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 26, 2021 1:44:58 AM(UTC)
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+1 For Audio Inserts.

We use two or more vMix computers and we are out of busses. We would like to use insert points on inputs and busses via dante vsc to offload audio control to an external console for processing, sub mixes and mix minus operations.

Kenny Stokes
JoostH  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 26, 2021 2:28:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ThommiTechnik Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JoostH Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps I miss the subtleties of this request as I'm not an advanced vMix user. But it is easy to add VST plugins in vMix on every input and bus. Click the settings wheel of the input/bus > plugins


Imagine of a talkshow: nowadays we have around 12 mics for the participants in the venue, and then there are clips from EVS and/or CasparCG, music from EVS and/or CasparCG. Normally also ambience, but forget about this until summer 2021 ;) And you have the remote callers via SRT. So, all mics, clips, music is on the audio mixer (LAWO, sometimes Harrison MixBus 32) anyway.
So we're using two instances of vMix, one for the mixing of vision, and one only for SRT or NDI Inputs. These are nowadays going on the buses A-G to separate all audio-inputs, and are routed via DANTE to the audio-mixer, and via Dante routed to the first instance of vMix. So,if there would be an insert in audio, it would be easier, and much less NDI routing (the video-calls are routed via NDI to the first instance for the pictures).

VST Plugins, to be honest, is really nice for smaller productions, but means more processing power on the vMix-Machine. I ry to avoid this.

Cheers, Thomas


O yeah, my use is defintely in the realm of 'small productions' :-)
dtmmedia  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 26, 2021 2:31:53 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the input from everyone. I agree that a native audio insert functionality would be the best solution, and I’ll +1 that. I brought up the VST plug-in option trying to see if that might be a workaround to get similar functionality without waiting on a feature upgrade, but it doesn’t sound like that’s a real option right now. Maybe we’ll see a native solution down the road’
ThommiTechnik  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2021 7:26:13 PM(UTC)
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