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KRTW  
#1 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2020 11:04:46 PM(UTC)
KRTW

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I7 6700. 32 GB ram, M.2 system drive, GTX 1070, 10 SSDs installed, Windows 10 Pro, Blackmagic Quad 2. Using 6 1920x1080 camera inputs, Dante for audio, stereo input from AVIO adapter off main L R from console. Each camera recording to its own SSD along with the main output - so recording to 7 SSDs - all new sata 6. Write speed 378 mb/sec tested.

Then streaming at 4.5 MB/sec h.264 128 AAC (I think)..it was a hard days night.

I did 2 shows yesterday. First one recording only, no problems. Second recording and streaming. - this failed. I first started streaming at 6mb/sec 128 AAC - youtube gave me error saying not receiving enough data. CPU usage shot up to 101% and the whole machine started to shudder. Lowered stream to 4.5 and shut off recording....it worked.

So, it appears I taxed the system beyond its capabilities....its was the first try doing all this on the new system. What to do to resolve the issue? I also had the thought that the computer should be rebooted between shows.

Comments on whether one machine of any spec can handle all this appreciated. If I can upgrade.

The other solution I thought of is to deploy my second video rig. In this setup I use one machine to record, send the main output to the second machine via NDI - and stream using it.

Comments most appreciated. I have 2 more shows to get done today. Streaming is MOST important so I'll not try recording at the same time. I am multitrack recording audio via dante to a second machine.

Imagine - multitrack video and audio recording......wow...cool. Now to make it work.



xemles  
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:05:04 AM(UTC)
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For all of that, an i7 6700 is really low, what you should look into upgrading is your CPU, I doubt the GTX 1070 is a problem for what you do.

Try looking into a higher end Intel i7-i9 or an AMD RYZEN 7
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 15, 2020 5:41:12 PM(UTC)
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Most likely too much for the CPU indeed.
If you want to ISO record all cams + Master + Stream, you need 8 simultaneous encodes on the GPU. Your GPU can handle 2, resulting the CPU to be used for 6 which is way too much.
Solutions :
- get a Quadro to replace the GTX.
- use a more powerful CPU but not just a bit more powerful... Way more powerful like those with 10 cores or more... this also implies replacing the motherboard and the RAM
- split the entire workflow over 2 vMix instances or more.
- unload the ISO recordings from vMix, use a separate solution for this
- use the cameras own internal recording capability
KRTW  
#4 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 4:29:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
Most likely too much for the CPU indeed.
If you want to ISO record all cams + Master + Stream, you need 8 simultaneous encodes on the GPU. Your GPU can handle 2, resulting the CPU to be used for 6 which is way too much.
Solutions :
- get a Quadro to replace the GTX.
- use a more powerful CPU but not just a bit more powerful... Way more powerful like those with 10 cores or more... this also implies replacing the motherboard and the RAM
- split the entire workflow over 2 vMix instances or more.
- unload the ISO recordings from vMix, use a separate solution for this
- use the cameras own internal recording capability


Without streaming, no issues recording 6 cams, and the main output That's 7 SSDs working -not even close to an issue. The machine crapped out when I tried to live stream AND record all those.

The path forward I believe is the leave the system as it is - it works, but to stream by using NDI to send the main output to another vmix computer.

Now that the event is over - I can run tests.

Totally not interested in recording on the cams - its why I have 8 inputs on the computer - and for live streaming , is it ever fantastic.

Thanks for the post - stay tuned.....I'll be running heavy tests of the system this week.

KRTW  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:14:09 PM(UTC)
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The recordings did not go as well as I thought, and I agree that the computer is not powerful enough. Its being upgraded to an i9 9900k and 64 GB of ram.
DWAM  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:26:56 AM(UTC)
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When the CPU load is 101% there is definitely something going wrong !

IMHO I'd rather use an nVidia QUADRO which offers unlimited simultaneous encodes rather than changing the whole PC...
KRTW  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:13:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
When the CPU load is 101% there is definitely something going wrong !

IMHO I'd rather use an nVidia QUADRO which offers unlimited simultaneous encodes rather than changing the whole PC...


Which one? The RTX 5000 is like $3000. I know nothing about these cards - although the blurbs look good. But I don't think the issue was graphics related.....read below.

I did show 1. Recorded all my inputs, and the mix - no issues - but no streaming. Started show 2, the same setup and recording, but streaming this time.....this is when the computer went to 101% and freaked....I turned off recording....., got the streaming settled down and working, and decided to add just recording the main output - when I did the the computer FREAKED again, and I had to stop recording. Show 3, streaming and recording the main output CPU at 29% and no issues.....Show 4 - same thing.....Something happened during that second show and I don't know what. But it did not occur again....There was a day between show 2 and 3 which means the computer was shut down and rebooted. I have NO idea what happened, what caused it. 

I already own a 300 series system board with 32 GB of ram....The upgrade will cost me around $600. Doing it anyway.....

More info on the QUADRO card most appreciated.


mavik  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2020 4:27:33 AM(UTC)
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You can even patch the limitation of non quadro cards. It frustrated me year ago and still works. I patched a RTX 2080 Super with Max-Q Design in a Acer Concept D Laptop. Now it support more than two hardware encodes like the quadros.
Just search the post for more information. The patches are maintained.
DWAM  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2020 4:59:11 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
More info on the QUADRO card most appreciated.

This forum contains several posts about which Quadro models are supported and effective. The search feature is free to use and the keyword is Quadro ! ;o)

I personally own P2200 and P4000 Quadros (from $450) as well as a bunch of GTX
KRTW  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:03:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mavik Go to Quoted Post
You can even patch the limitation of non quadro cards. It frustrated me year ago and still works. I patched a RTX 2080 Super with Max-Q Design in a Acer Concept D Laptop. Now it support more than two hardware encodes like the quadros.
Just search the post for more information. The patches are maintained.


What does "patch the limitations" mean? Are you referring to running more than one graphics card?
DWAM  
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:27:20 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
What does "patch the limitations" mean?


it means hacking the CG to remove a vendor's limitation.

Patching GTX is illegal and AFAIK vMix prevents from using patched graphics cards
doggy  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:38:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
AFAIK vMix prevents from using patched graphics cards


Prevents or maintains "max" restriction? my vMix is still working

DWAM  
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:10:41 AM(UTC)
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I'm not sure about this, I don't cheat ! ;o)
I think I remember Martin talking about this in a recent Fun Time Live Show, I didn't care much as I'm not concerned, but yes, it could be that vMix only allows 2 or 3 simultaneous encodes depending on the GTX model regardless if it's patched on not.
doggy  
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:44:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DWAM Go to Quoted Post
could be that vMix only allows 2 or 3 simultaneous encodes depending on the GTX model regardless if it's patched on not.


Unpatched there are now 3 encodes, was upgraded this year (driver updates)

KRTW  
#15 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2020 5:33:43 AM(UTC)
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How do the encoders relate to performance, and recording 8 inputs at once? I understand the basics, but would like to better understand how to improve my computers ability to handle this load and maximise both quality and stability. Is there documentation on this somewhere?
KRTW  
#16 Posted : Friday, November 20, 2020 3:35:47 AM(UTC)
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Really want to understand this element of vmix processing better.

3 Encoders Max (Vmix) 8 Inputs. 1 Graphics card. 1 CPU.(my system)

My GTX 1070 - Total number of NVENC = 2

So what happens here? As the video streams hit the PCIe bus, it uses the GPU to encode the streams to H.264 and has to switch between the 6 streams (max inputs used so far) to encode them all at the same time? Then the CPU saves the files to the hard drive while sending the video to Vmix Before or After encoding - to its graphic interface - and another recording stream is created that needs to be encoded as well and sent to the recording medium?

I would love to understand this signal path. Any help MOST appreciated.

Want to make the right decision when upgrading my system for better quality, stability and ability.
mavik  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 4:35:46 AM(UTC)
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I personally have very good results with patched GPUs. After the patch vMix is able to do more than 2 GPU encodes.
I did it with a 1060 and a 2080 recently. All good, no stability issues, no encode limit of 2 concurrent like before patching.
My P2200 doesn't had this limit so I left it unpatched.

It's totally up to you and there is a potential risk. I can only report my experiences

Take ownership, only you are responsible.
KRTW  
#18 Posted : Saturday, November 28, 2020 10:47:24 AM(UTC)
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Update.

I have purchased a 10 core, 48 lane CPU and and an x299 system board with 48 pcie lanes. It should be here tomorrow, maybe the next day.

I have spend days researching, I've been told, and believe, that to do what I want, I need a minimum of 10 cores, but the key are the PCIe lanes. On this board there are 2 16x PCIe slots, 1 8 lane and 2 4 lane. Not sharing the PCIe lane gives full throughput to the devices connected. I thought it was about the cores....no....its about what the CPU can handle and the number of lanes. The b360 has only 12 lanes in total....it would have failed no matter what processor I put in it....

I got an i9 9820X LGA 2066 the X299 chipset on the board. Its a major upgrade. I was in the process of getting an i9 9900k at $500 max 32 lanes - I got the board and processor for $900. Deal.

Will let you know how it goes.

LucaL  
#19 Posted : Saturday, November 28, 2020 11:20:34 AM(UTC)
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Interesting topic , let us know ...
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