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advisiontv  
#1 Posted : Saturday, May 9, 2020 6:45:33 AM(UTC)
advisiontv

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For the last few weeks I've been pushing vMix and vMix call quite hard remotely technically directing shows, with callers on air while I've been setting up other calls, chatting to them off air before they go live etc. The technique I've used is to simply use buses for each caller, and then toggle on or off where their audio goes and shortcuts to allow me to speak to their bus. I've felt the actual mixing of the show a little poor as I've simply enabled the M button top put callers on and off air.
I would naturally in my TV career fade up guests, and it's a much better visual representation of whats going on simply by looking at a bank of faders as well as mixing their levels more precisly, so I've invested in a hardware mixer which works very well.

However, I''m now in the situation that when an input is faded down (becuase it isn't on air) then no audio gets routed to any buses to allow monitoring, and I can't use solo to monitor them in my headphones becuase their fader is down! Is there a work around? Normally a PFL function would allow me to monitor inputs which aren't faded up, or I could use an auxilary bus for my monitoring which lets me send inputs PRE fade to a speaker or headphones.

There surely must be a way to do this without having the fader open? I don't want to have to go back to keeping the fader open all the time just to act as a gain control, and then snapping audio on and off with buttons????
KnKproductions  
#2 Posted : Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:06:17 AM(UTC)
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advisiontv  
#3 Posted : Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:22:01 AM(UTC)
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Yes - I read this. I was hoping that I might have been missing something. Not having true PFL is very limiting for broadcast work, especially when comms plays a large part. Is there a work around solution??

I'm currently experimenting with the channel mixer: ch1 audio for on-air output, and ch2 for bus comms. Using the matrix to duplicate channel 1 to L & R.
Ive been trying to get my hardware mixer to ride the channel mixer faders - but they only seem to do anything with the normal input volume.
I then tried changing the input to Seperate Mono so I can clearly then see each fader in the mixer - but that then led to what I think is a bug which I've just reported (audio has to be sent to Master else it mutes all the other buses which doesnt happen in normal stereo mode).
KnKproductions  
#4 Posted : Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:37:00 AM(UTC)
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I have only tied my shoes one way my whole life. I have tried learning the common way, but could never get it right or get the laces to tie the same as my way.
The same principle seems to apply here: those who have done something one way the whole time are perplexed when it is done a different way.
It's unfortunate, because it appears that the entire audio chain was designed to facilitate the one way that the mixing was learned with no background on the entirely different way.
Therefore, the audio chain is tailored for music mixing and not broadcast mixing. (from what i gather in the other thread).
Myself, I don't know either methods I just know how to use 'cue' on a dj mixer! :)

I did try to workaround by making a second duplicate audio channel but the virtual input option does not replicate the audio.
Other than that, I suppose you'd have to make a dual purpose shortcut to mute and solo a channel at the same time.
Can motorized mixers be set to automatically fade in to to a certain point?

I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to put in negative gain in the audio options instead of positive only.... this way if something was hot at 0db i could take it down -9db and still have the fader maxed out without having to worry about getting it at the exact right spot. Anyone know if there's a limiter?


Edit: nm, plugins can do all that.
advisiontv  
#5 Posted : Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:48:35 AM(UTC)
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It's a shame as the software is heading more towards broadcast mixing now, especially with vMix Call which requires lots of comms.
My workaround with routing and using channel mixer spliting output and comms does work - but sadly getting to the channel mixer is hard. If only I could assign channel mixer 1 (left) to my hardware controller to then leave channel 2 (right) always up and routed to the comms buses.
The only other workaround (but it is such a faff) is to use the input for comms, and send to another bus which the output is solely used by a mechanical fader and added to the M output. Sadly with only 7 auxes available it would use them up far too quickly!
TheBB  
#6 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 1:34:34 AM(UTC)
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Hello to you all - new to Vmix and the group.

I think us audio people need to put this in video terms. PFL is the preview screen of audio. Would you punch a show from a video standpoint if you didn't know what was in preview?

We need PFL - Pre Fader Listen
What we have now is AFL - After Fader Listen

A show is almost impossible to mix without PFL and I now understand why many people using Vmix are using external consoles and receiving audio via Dante or other protocol then sending the full mix to Vmix. It's simply to have PFL.

We (audio engineers) need to PFL a microphone before someone speaks. For example - an executive is running late to a web cast. There's another presenter speaking while he's getting in his seat. I need to PFL the new presenter (fader down, mute button on) to make sure his mic is ok, do a level test with him etc.

I hope this makes sense to any administrator that chimes in.

Please help!

Brian
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advisiontv on 5/16/2020(UTC)
advisiontv  
#7 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 1:44:09 AM(UTC)
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Well said Brian. Having PFL would solve everything! It could even simply be a little toggle in the settings menu said that - SOLO PFL or AFL to give the user the option. I understand that anyone from a music background may need AFL - but anyone in broadcast needs to have PFL. That would open up so much! Talkback scenarios. Presenter Pre Hear etc.

I have in the last few days sound a little work around - but it is not ideal at all! You can create a duplicate vMix call as an NDI input. My first few channels are the on-air vMix call channels and the faders correspond to my hardware DAW mixer which is lovely. I then have NDI duplicates which are left permantly faded up. These are then the ones which can be SOLOed or added to a bus! Cunning! It ties a few more resources up, and real estate on the screen, but it seems to work for vMix calls.
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TheBB on 5/16/2020(UTC)
dedlinemedia  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2020 12:36:09 PM(UTC)
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Yes if the fader is down, the only real way is to replicate the input so you have audio essentially going through two faders. A friend online shared this solution, where he brought in his vmix call, then sent it to an NDI output. Then brought it back in with an NDI input. His vmixcall fader is left up, his NDI input is what he used to mix to air. He set a shortcut to route his original vmixcall fader to a speaker, so he could hear the talent, while his NDI input was still muted to air. Quite a workaround, especially with multiple callers but it works.
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