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Stream Quality Is Junk - Help Me?
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13  Location: ORLANDO
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Hello All! Ive searched high and low for a fix and found various posts and applied the tips and tricks but Im still unsatisfied with my stream. Ive attached 3 photos...2 of them are in my church using 2 different Sony cameras and 1 is in another church. My 2 Cameras... 1. Sony VG30 - 1080p output 2. Sony A7Sii - 1080p output Camera At other church... 1. Blackmagic studio camera - not sure on output Im using HDMI cable to run into a Blackmagic ATEM then SDI to Magewell SDI USB3.0 Im using vMix 22 and my Stream settings are... H264 1080p 6mbps AAC 128kbps FFMPEG Hardware Encoder My Laptop is... HP Elitebook 8570W 16GB RAM 500gb SSD Nvidia Quadro K1000M I have absolutely no issues streaming those settings. Some times internet might get weird and but 98% of the time, no hiccups with outputting that quality. I just dont understand why my image looks so bad. It looks so fuzzy and pixelated. Doesnt look clear and crisp. On the other churches stream, it doesnt look AMAZING but it looks much better and sharper than my image. Can anyone help? Ive tried numerous settings. I cant seem to get a nicer and sharper image from either camera. Yes, on the youtube playback I selected 1080p. Also, when I view the input on vMix, it looks so nice and sharp! So how come I cant output that sharpness?  Sony.jpg (80kb) downloaded 10 time(s). Screenshot_20200401-124134_Facebook.jpg (1,286kb) downloaded 12 time(s). SonyVG.jpg (119kb) downloaded 8 time(s).
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 7/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: England
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I run 4 x Hp Elitebook 8570w but with Quadro K2000m so I'll try and help
Is it the input or output that doesn't seem right?
You say ' I cant seem to get a nicer and sharper image from either camera.' but then you say 'Also, when I view the input on vMix, it looks so nice and sharp! So how come I cant output that sharpness?'
What operating system are you using and are you running anti-virus and/or firewall. How are you connected to the internet (direct to router or through a network switch - 100mbs or gigabit?)
Can you upload a short video to your YouTube channel so I can see the quality?
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: Snooker Loopy  I run 4 x Hp Elitebook 8570w but with Quadro K2000m so I'll try and help
Is it the input or output that doesn't seem right?
You say ' I cant seem to get a nicer and sharper image from either camera.' but then you say 'Also, when I view the input on vMix, it looks so nice and sharp! So how come I cant output that sharpness?'
What operating system are you using and are you running anti-virus and/or firewall. How are you connected to the internet (direct to router or through a network switch - 100mbs or gigabit?)
Can you upload a short video to your YouTube channel so I can see the quality? Thanks for the reply! I will get a test footage setup for you. So my camera input that I see in vMix studio, looks nice. Thats the input where I select the Magellan SDI. Clean and sharp. Its the stream that looks terrible and I don't understand why. Even titles look nice and thats where I can really see the difference in quality. No firewall, no anti virus. I'm connected via wifi, 40 down/8-10 up. I'm comfortably streaming 6mbps and YouTube is taking it without issue. I gotta see if its a wifi/modem combo or a modem with an external router. We're sort of on lock down do to virus so my time after i get off work is limited. Ill try and get more information for you. Curious if youre streaming through youtube as well and putting out crisp video?
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Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: Snooker Loopy I run 4 x Hp Elitebook 8570w but with Quadro K2000m so I'll try and help
Is it the input or output that doesn't seem right?
You say ' I cant seem to get a nicer and sharper image from either camera.' but then you say 'Also, when I view the input on vMix, it looks so nice and sharp! So how come I cant output that sharpness?'
What operating system are you using and are you running anti-virus and/or firewall. How are you connected to the internet (direct to router or through a network switch - 100mbs or gigabit?)
Can you upload a short video to your YouTube channel so I can see the quality? My apologies! I mistyped, I actually do have the K2000M! Here is a link to a test I ran (forgive me for the awful audio) with first portion being Sony VG30 and second Sony A7sii. Both via HDMI into ATEM and into laptop via Magewell..
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 7/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: England
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Thanks for the sample and don't worry about audio - I've got it muted.
Could you upload a second sample with your titles on so I can see the difference between them and the camera output please?
We're also on lock down here in the UK due to the Covid-19 virus. Personally, due to other health considerations, I've got at least another 11 weeks of isolation to look forward to besides all our events being cancelled.
We'll have to do this troubleshooting on a process of elimination basis but, if you're happy with the quality of input, then we'll start from the output side and see if there's anything obvious there.
Do you have the opportunity to hard wire the laptop to the network if need be?
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: Snooker Loopy Thanks for the sample and don't worry about audio - I've got it muted.
Could you upload a second sample with your titles on so I can see the difference between them and the camera output please?
We're also on lock down here in the UK due to the Covid-19 virus. Personally, due to other health considerations, I've got at least another 11 weeks of isolation to look forward to besides all our events being cancelled.
We'll have to do this troubleshooting on a process of elimination basis but, if you're happy with the quality of input, then we'll start from the output side and see if there's anything obvious there.
Do you have the opportunity to hard wire the laptop to the network if need be?
Hope youre keeping safe! We are hardwired now. 64 down / 8 up My settings are set to 1080 @ 6mbps and youtube stream setting is set to 1080 / 3-6mbps We are live right now and here is a screenshot of the video on youtube with the titles... titles.jpg (90kb) downloaded 11 time(s).
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I would think it's your internet speed. 8 up isn't a lot to work with.
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: al4video I would think it's your internet speed. 8 up isn't a lot to work with. Doesnt it need to be at least 6mbps for 1080? And how come the titles look so perfect? Ive attached a screenshot of the youtube stream and a screenshot of the vmix input... vmixinput.jpg (114kb) downloaded 5 time(s). titles.jpg (90kb) downloaded 6 time(s).
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The rule of thumb is that you should not exceed 50% of you available bandwidth. So you need to lower the upload settings. 720p will still look sharp on end devices. Drop it down to 3.5mpbs and set your streaming settings @ 720p. You can go down to 1.5 mpbs and still get good results. Titles look sharp because they are static images. There is a lot of geeky theory about how encoders work, and what they send. Suffice is to say that moving images generate more data than static.
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: ask The rule of thumb is that you should not exceed 50% of you available bandwidth. So you need to lower the upload settings. 720p will still look sharp on end devices. Drop it down to 3.5mpbs and set your streaming settings @ 720p. You can go down to 1.5 mpbs and still get good results. Titles look sharp because they are static images. There is a lot of geeky theory about how encoders work, and what they send. Suffice is to say that moving images generate more data than static. Ok i will try that and report back! Currently live so can't test right now but will later Thanks!!
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: ask The rule of thumb is that you should not exceed 50% of you available bandwidth. So you need to lower the upload settings. 720p will still look sharp on end devices. Drop it down to 3.5mpbs and set your streaming settings @ 720p. You can go down to 1.5 mpbs and still get good results. Titles look sharp because they are static images. There is a lot of geeky theory about how encoders work, and what they send. Suffice is to say that moving images generate more data than static. I tried that and looked even worse at 720. Very pixelated and just junk. Ugh its driving me nuts. Anyone's help is appreciated. Just trying to get a better/clearer picture.
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In vMix there is a build in vectorscope and waveform monitor. Checking them would be nice.
What I assume is that on your monitor (I guess FHD resolution) you see the preview and program sized down. Each window can't be FHD. That is maybe why the preview looks much sharper. Another thought is your lighting. It's a relative dark scene with some very high highlights (windows) in the back. The sensor of the cam is trying to give you the best image and has to balance between the very light and very dark parts. The image could be imporoved if add more light or close the windows with a dark cloth. Then the sensor can use it's dynamic range much better.
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Joined: 10/13/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,162 Location: Melbourne Thanks: 220 times
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Originally Posted by: nolocproductions Originally Posted by: ask The rule of thumb is that you should not exceed 50% of you available bandwidth. So you need to lower the upload settings. 720p will still look sharp on end devices. Drop it down to 3.5mpbs and set your streaming settings @ 720p. You can go down to 1.5 mpbs and still get good results. Titles look sharp because they are static images. There is a lot of geeky theory about how encoders work, and what they send. Suffice is to say that moving images generate more data than static. I tried that and looked even worse at 720. Very pixelated and just junk. Ugh its driving me nuts. Anyone's help is appreciated. Just trying to get a better/clearer picture. Try streaming to another CDN. YT is quite fussy about the data rate it receives. daCast is a good option: https://www.dacast.com/
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: ask Originally Posted by: nolocproductions Originally Posted by: ask The rule of thumb is that you should not exceed 50% of you available bandwidth. So you need to lower the upload settings. 720p will still look sharp on end devices. Drop it down to 3.5mpbs and set your streaming settings @ 720p. You can go down to 1.5 mpbs and still get good results. Titles look sharp because they are static images. There is a lot of geeky theory about how encoders work, and what they send. Suffice is to say that moving images generate more data than static. I tried that and looked even worse at 720. Very pixelated and just junk. Ugh its driving me nuts. Anyone's help is appreciated. Just trying to get a better/clearer picture. Try streaming to another CDN. YT is quite fussy about the data rate it receives. daCast is a good option: https://www.dacast.com/ Thank you for this! I will try this!
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Bit of an update. I decided to setup a custom stream key in YouTube and set it to 1440p. I then set a custom stream output in vMix set at 1440p/8mbps. Even though my camera is just 1080p. I feel like the image is much better. I can watch and see as the image pixelates from time to time but when it hits it right, looks clearer. Any opinions? 2020-04-07_19-56-02.jpg (87kb) downloaded 4 time(s).
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Joined: 3/28/2020(UTC) Posts: 8 Location: Florida Thanks: 4 times
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I was told to make sure you are sending out 60 FPS and Facebook or YouTube will downgrade it slightly, So you can make it look sharper by sending more FPS. 1080 @ 59.97 FPS
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: VideoDocDigital I was told to make sure you are sending out 60 FPS and Facebook or YouTube will downgrade it slightly, So you can make it look sharper by sending more FPS. 1080 @ 59.97 FPS Thanks for that tip! Will try that!
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Originally Posted by: nolocproductions Originally Posted by: VideoDocDigital I was told to make sure you are sending out 60 FPS and Facebook or YouTube will downgrade it slightly, So you can make it look sharper by sending more FPS. 1080 @ 59.97 FPS Thanks for that tip! Will try that! Have you tried removing the hardware encoder so it uses your CPU? also what is the settings for encoding? is it base is it medium high? keyframe? what are your settings. 8mpbs at 1080 should look perfect with the right settings. also remember that google has throttled down playback by default so although i'm sure you did make sure you check to see if its playing back in full quality aka source.
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 3/27/2020(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ORLANDO
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Originally Posted by: NiBTour Originally Posted by: nolocproductions Originally Posted by: VideoDocDigital I was told to make sure you are sending out 60 FPS and Facebook or YouTube will downgrade it slightly, So you can make it look sharper by sending more FPS. 1080 @ 59.97 FPS Thanks for that tip! Will try that! Have you tried removing the hardware encoder so it uses your CPU? also what is the settings for encoding? is it base is it medium high? keyframe? what are your settings. 8mpbs at 1080 should look perfect with the right settings. also remember that google has throttled down playback by default so although i'm sure you did make sure you check to see if its playing back in full quality aka source. Everyone forgive me for the short replies. Im working 9-5, plus working with church and also dealing with this coronavirus thing as Im sure a lot of you are as well! I promise Im reading everything and trying out each suggestion as I can... Here is a screenshot of my settings I used last to stream 1080 using 1440 settings in box vMix and Youtube... If I should adjust something outside of the bitrate and dimension, let me know! Settings.jpg (46kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
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Personally, I think that at 8000 and 2560 x 1440 and with profile set to high, you would probably need about 20meg upspeed bandwidth. The video bit rates fluctuate with movement and so your setup will be trying to get more bandwidth. You mentioned it is 8meg up.
Another area to check is the actual CPU usage, not the one displayed by vmix, which is an average over all cores, but look at the individual cores in the taskmanager, performance setting, click on CPU and then right click on the graph to see the logical processor view. While streaming and recording, you will see that vmix can push a single core up high, and this does not show in the average or in vmix. A high CPU will downgrade your stream quality. 1080p and above at anything over 3mbps will use more CPU when you are actually streaming.
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