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dundurs  
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 7, 2011 2:27:34 PM(UTC)
dundurs

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Hello,

I have been testing vMix for several months already and generally Im impressed with the feature set and quality. We are a sport events broadcaster with 8 mobile broadcasting teams over country that require full broadcasting setup (camcorder, laptop, mixing and titling software - vMix, encoding software - FMLE). Recently I also bough my first vMix licence and would be willing to invest more, if only Martin could help with the following issue.

When using vMix, we are experiencing a regular frame freeze for a millisecond, which is especially well visible when actively moving camcorder (when there is a lot of motion). This could also be described as dropped frames (however vMix/FMLE does not say that any frames are dropped) or it could also be described as "not a smooth motion".

To visualize this issues, I have created two videos:
1. video created using only FMLE with no motion problems at all http://live2.tiesraides.lv:8080/wowza/saeima_1_9.mp4
2. video created using vMix and FMLE with motion problems, which are especially well visible when the arabic text is sliding and it keeps changing speed all the time, video available here http://live2.tiesraides.lv:8080/wowza/saeima_1_5.mp4

My setup is the following:
1. Hardware
- sony cx550 camcorder
- hauppauge usb live-2
- laptop i7, 4GB RAM
2. OS Windows 7 64bit
3. vMix
- I have increased the priority of application to maximum
- I have decreased the quality and size to the minimum of main video window and input source windows
- PAL 720 x 576
- The total CPU resources are utilized up to 2% with no encoding and up to 10% with encoding
- vMix does not show any dropped frames
4. FMLE 3.2
- also no dropped frames here

I have tested this setup on different hardware, two latest vMix versions, FMLE 3.1 and FMLE 3.2 and other encoders with no change.

Unfortunately this issue is a killer for sports broadcasting and I have to understand if there is any chance we can solve this. I would go for more licences, if only there is a way to deal with this problem.

Please let me also know if I can be of any assistance in terms of testing and preparing more test video recordings.

Thanks and I will be looking forward for suggestions, comments and solutions regarding this issue,
Dundurs
tony marone  
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 7, 2011 7:38:15 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dundurs,

I too suffer from this problem! I have tried to explain it to Martin in the past but have never sent him an example. My system is verv much overkill, if you check my other posts you can see my specs. Just using FMLE there is no motion problem, but with vMix or another software called VidBlaster I have the unsteady frame rate.

I have pretty much decided that this problem is due to DirectShow and the Windows environment. I really wish it could be fixed because it stops me from using vMix for anything but non-critical webcasting. I wouldn't dream of using it in a live situation or burning a DVD for a client with these motion problems.

Another interesting point is that some people don't even notice the unsteady motion. After it is pointed out to them they can see it but it is amazing how some people have such an uncritical eye.

Tony
admin  
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 7, 2011 10:36:08 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dundurs,

Smooth motion is something I have spent considerable time optimising in vMix and I thought I had fixed all the test cases with the current version.
Some additional information that would be helpful:

- The full text of the vMix status bar when running
- Is it just the hauppage usb live-2 that is being used? Have you tried any other devices?
- Do the video windows in vMix show the problem or is it only in the FMLE output?

I am confident the issue can be resolved, if it is just the FMLE output it could be a timing issue that is easily fixed if I can re-create it, if it is in vMix as well there are options there as well.

Regards,

Martin
admin  
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 7, 2011 10:39:56 PM(UTC)
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Also, I nearly forgot, what graphics card are you using?

Regards,

Martin
dundurs  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 8, 2011 1:45:01 PM(UTC)
dundurs

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First of all, thanks for responses. And it is nice to see that Im not the only one who is experiencing this issue :)

Following are answers to Martin's questions:
1. EX FPS: 25/26 Backup FPS: 0 Render Time: 4/5 ms CPU 1%
2. After your suggestion to check other devices besides hauppauge live-2 usb, today i also tried using AVerTV Express HD DVR (http://www.avermedia-usa.com/AVerTV/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=490&device=4&tab=APDriver) with the same result. I created a new demo video with the motion problem available here: http://live2.tiesraides.lv:8080/wowza/test_0.mp4 . The problem is especially well visible when you look at the sliding red text portion.
3. regarding the output on vMix, I will check tomorrow for sure, but Im leaning towards that there was also a problem on vMix output
4. Im using Intel HD Graphics 3000 and other variations of Intel built-in laptop adapters and ATI graphic adapter

Let me know if you need more information, at this point I could even send you a hauppauge to make sure you can recreate the same problem :)
admin  
#6 Posted : Saturday, July 9, 2011 5:16:31 AM(UTC)
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I have uploaded one of the test videos I use which may help in determining what is happening.
Please follow the steps below:

1. Download http://www.vmix.com.au/videos/bluebar25fps.avi
2. Add this video to vMix and set it to loop.
3. Set the vMix Virtual Capture output to 720x575 25fps and set the Output Format under the Performance tab to YUY2.
4. Record the clip to file using Flash Media Live Encoder 3.2 at 25fps (the latest is available from the Adobe site) and post that here and I will take a look at it.

The test video has a blue bar that moves with even spacing across the screen, if frames are being missed somewhere it will be pretty obvious.

One thing you could also try with your capture devices is unticking (or ticking) the Virtual Genlock feature under the performance tab.
This feature ensures that every frame received from the capture device is evenly spaced but perhaps it causes issues for some devices.

Thanks,

Martin
vMix
dundurs  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:22:54 PM(UTC)
dundurs

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Hello, Martin,

I have to apologize for not responding earlier, however it took some time to do the tests with the video with blue stripes. See my results below.
To prepare the test I set the Output format to YUY2 as you asked.

1. Test with vMix 9b and FMLE 3.2 with video added using "Add New Input -> Video"
There were no motion problems, therefore I decided the next step would be to get the test video in vMix using USB source

2. Test with FMLE 3.2 with video played using Kiss DVD player
Result: http://live2.tiesraides.lv:8080/wowza/vmix_test_5.mp4
There were no motion problems

3. Test with vMix 9b and FMLE 3.2 with Genlock enabled with video added using "Add New Input -> Capture" through Kiss DVD player
Result: http://live2.tiesraides.lv:8080/wowza/vmix_test_6.mp4
Supposedly there are motion problems, because the blue line is stretched?

4. Test with vMix 9b and FMLE 3.2 with Genlock enabled + overlay with video added using "Add New Input -> Capture" through Kiss DVD player
Result: http://live2.tiesraides.lv:8080/wowza/vmix_test_7.mp4
The same result as test 3

5. Test with vMix 9b and FMLE 3.2 with Genlock disabled + overlay with video added using "Add New Input -> Capture" through Kiss DVD player
Result: http://live2.tiesraides.lv:8080/wowza/vmix_test_8.mp4
The blue line appears right; after this I also tried other videos and there were no old motion problems, that I reported about before, it seems that genlock (together with YUY2?) was the underlying issue.
However, I came across a different problem: after playing the video for 5-10 minutes the fps dropped to FPS: 5

6. Sames as 5, but with vMix beta5
The same results as test 5 with FPS rate going down after some time

7. Same as 5, but with vMix beta3
The same results as test 5 with FPS rate going down after some time
See the screenshot here: http://i2.tiesraides.lv/...11-07-15_clipboard01.jpg

Hence the conclusion:
1. Genlock disable & YUY2 solved the motion problem
2. Genlock disable or YUY2 mode created a new problem - after 5-10 minutes the FPS dropps to 5 and video appears frozen in vMix


Thanks for reading and let me know whats next.
Hope this helps also other vMix users,
Dundurs
admin  
#8 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:06:39 AM(UTC)
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Hi Dandurs,

Thanks for the tests, can you confirm that the "Hauppauge USB-Live-2" is what was used during your tests?
If so, I can source the hardware locally and do some further testing.

Thanks,

Martin
dundurs  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 19, 2011 3:52:26 AM(UTC)
dundurs

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Hello, Martin,

Yes, I camn confirm that Im using Hauppauge USB Live-2 for all tests.

Thanks and let me know if you need me to send the usb device,
Dundurs
admin  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:45:16 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

Please see if the following v10 test version fixes the issue with the GenLock:

http://www.vmix.com.au/d...load/vmix2011v10test.exe

Thanks,

Martin
vMix
dundurs  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:46:36 PM(UTC)
dundurs

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Hello, Martin,

I have been running the updated version of vMix for more than 8h now with no video freezing or fps drop problems, so it seems that this problems is solved. Will do some more tests in the following days to make sure everything works fine.

Martin, thanks a lot for this vMix update, I think other users will also be impressed.
Regards,
Dundurs
dundurs  
#12 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:59:25 AM(UTC)
dundurs

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Hello, Martin,

I can confirm, that v10test update has solved this problem in my case, hence thanks a lot for your support. Hope, that Tony is also satisfied.


By the way I have been playing with flash overlays and on one computer the flash transparency does not work. On other computers everything is fine for the same flash.

See the screenshot here from problematic computer: http://i2.tiesraides.lv/...11-07-30_clipboard01.jpg
And the flash application is available here: http://video.tiesraides....le.swf?stream=tiesraide1
And the screenshot from other computers displaying the flash like it is supposed to look: http://i2.tiesraides.lv/...11-07-30_clipboard02.jpg

On problematic computer we have windows 7 64bit installed + latest Flash ActiveX (which is supposedly the same as on other computers). Any idea what I could try to deal with this issue?
admin  
#13 Posted : Monday, August 1, 2011 10:07:09 PM(UTC)
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Hi,

What is the graphics card on the problematic computer?

Thanks,

Martin
vMix
dundurs  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 2, 2011 2:40:22 AM(UTC)
dundurs

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Martin,

Both computers are identical laptops with HD Graphics 3000 graphic card. There must be some minor difference in software, which I havent been able to trace. I have tried reinstalling IE, Flash ActiveX control, clearing the cache, but none of them seem to work.

Dundurs
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