EDIT - I would love to have industry standard "LOOKING" Faders in vMix.
Typically you do not open a program and have the audio maxxed out.
You NEVER tell someone to maxx out the Volume Fader as you want room to raise the audio.
Thanks to Dave Edwards for showing me that vMix actually is set to Unity Gain(0db) when it is "maxxed" out on the slider, not nearly as bad as I thought at +10db.

Here is my FEATURE REQUEST
Update the vMix Audio Sliders to follow the Industry standard mixing console "look and feel".
Have them start at Unity Gain as they do but make that 75% up and give that extra +10 above that on the fader.
This would allow anyone already familiar with Audio Gear to be familiar with vMix and no re-learning necessary.
vMix Fader with no scale on it


Mixing Consoles typically go from -infinity to +10 with Unity Gain(0db) about 75% up.
See this image for an example

Another Soundboard Image

ProTools Fader(typcially considered the defacto standard for computer audio mixing) which actually goes to +12


How would this effect my production and why do I want this update?

This would allow me to use vMix the same way that I use a 'standard' mixing console in the analog world or in the professional computer audio world.
This would give me a visual marker to set it the same way every time.
Instead of saying raise it two or 3 notches I could say raise it to -20db.
This also allows me to set levels across systems and have them match. Unity Gain on One Unity Gain on Another(this requires you to use the gain knobs(gain submenu) to match both)
vMix Gain Slider in the Audio Settings

Setting the additional Gain in the Sub Menu is fine, Most use a Gain Knob at the top of the Channel Strip but a sub menu works as well.
Audio Board Gain Knob


Not having a scale that follows the standard makes me have to guess at what I am doing or mentally convert A to B.

Thank you very much for creating vMix as I think it is simply amazing software.
Also thanks for creating a way for users to ask for 'new things' and a way for us to ask for 'updates to existing things'.

Rich Shumaker

+1

Hi Rich,

There have been a number of discussions similar to this in the past.
There important technical and practical reasons why the mixer in vMix operates the way it does.

The maximum possible volume in the digital realm is 0dBFS ("full scale")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBFS

Analog audio mixing operates on a completely different principal (voltage instead of bits) and is therefore
not a good idea to try and emulate on a digital system like vMix. (though many vendors try do so with varying levels of success/confusion!)

You will note in ProTools that the fader goes up to "12" but that the meter only goes up to 0.
Therefore the ProTools fader is actually a dual fader/gain, so that anything over 0db
is actually amplifying the audio.

This means it is quite easy to accidentally clip the audio in ProTools, whereas in vMix, the gain is accessible
as a separate control.
This is because gain should rarely be used and generally only in cases where the source audio was mixed incorrectly
(such as a video clip with really soft audio).

The other reason is the use of a mouse. If you have a physical fader, sitting it on 0db is easy.
In the virtual realm, the easiest way to do this is to have the 0db up the top and dragging the mouse all the way.

Hope this helps explain our thinking, and why we plan to keep things as is.

Regards,

Martin
vMix

Thanks Martin for your fast reply.

Anyone reading this in the future and saying Hey I need what Rich is talking about.
I would recommend doing what I will probably end up doing, but it will use more CPU I am sure and that is exploring VST Channel Strip Plugin's.
Waves makes a bunch that emulate high end consoles like SSL's. There are others from companies like Softube and many others.
Thanks for adding VST's as that will make a good workaround in regards to this,
to a point.

I will try to sway you a little bit more before giving up completely on this as the workaround above only works to a point.

In your manual, as it was pointed out to me, there is a scale listed.

Why can't that scale be onscreen all the time?
For me and the reason I am asking for this is that right now there is no way to describe to someone with granularity what is happening or what to do with the audio.
I can not say raise it X or Y amount and must rely on 'till it sounds good' or 'before it crackles' which is subjective and not objective, also not teachable consistently.
I can tell you the bit rate, sample rate, fps, and a bunch of other very technical things, but I can't say the meters are peaking at X or Y.(not easily or quickly for me at least)

The second part is more of a bigger picture type thing and many would say very subjective.
I know that vMix is many people's first foray into Audio and Video.
By making the faders maxxed out by default many think this is the 'norm' in the audio world.
Unfortunately that is very far from the truth.
As I said on Facebook if I put all my faders on a sound board to maximum and a professional Audio person saw that they might just tell me to leave and never come back.
It also has the potential if used elsewhere of 'breaking things' and it is something that a new person only familiar with vMix might not understand.
If the default was 75% of maximum it would allow room to move up the fader and train people that volumes should not be maxxed out all the time.

I understand that the things I am discussing could be considered very subjective except many professionals will discount vMix because of things like this.
Which might be a good thing in a way but I don't see it that way personally.

As I always say vMix is my favorite Audio Video Computer System I have ever used and I have used a lot since my first AVC piece of gear the DigiView Digitizer with my Panasonic CCTV camera and color wheel, first Red(spin Wheel) then Green(Spin Wheel) then Blue(Spin Wheel) I think that is the correct order as it has been a while.

Thanks again Martin for creating this amazing software that I still find incredible things in every day. Love those UV Maps.

Rich Shumaker

Open up Audio Settings to see a more detailed scale and peak level meter.
From the main window, you can hover over the meter to see the peak levels in dB.

Also when dragging the fader it will also note the level it is set to in dB.

Screen real estate is at a premium in video production software which is why the mixers in vMix
are a lot more compact then say Pro Tools.

That said, the vMix API provides access to pretty much all mixer functions including live meter levels,
so if someone were to make an app to run on a separate monitor with full sized mixers, they could do so.
Or better yet, an app more suited for a touchscreen like the vMix Control Surface iOS app:

https://forums.vmix.com/...aspx?g=posts&t=16323

My request has been confused and that is completely my fault.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel I just want to see how fast I am driving.
My request was actually for values like vMix Control Surface has in the vMix UI.
I was indeed 'tweaking' those values to more 'inaccurately' represent what people are use to on standard mixing consoles.
So instead of making it go from 90 to 0 I went from -infinity to +10.
I was saying make 10 louder and have it go to 10 instead of 11, Spinal Tap Reference.
Meaning 0db becomes +10 on the mixer as 0db is the loudest Digital Audio can go.
Then adjust accordingly to allow for a 'fake' 0db on the slider and fake -infinity.
Oh and me using db is part of the problem I was just mirroring analog boards and that led to all the confusion so take that away

-infinity then at about 75% up is 0 then 100% up is +10 - They actually represent 90 to 0 on the current scale.
The reality is that when you hit my 'fake' +10 you are actually hitting the 'real' 0db.

I understand why you would not want to do that so I was asking at a minimum to give us what you pointed out on the Virtual Console.
Having the scale there is what this thread was all about.
Not changing the gain structure to match the analog world and it was my ignorance that screwed this request up.

THANK YOU for the Virtual Console link as I own that and will use it as well.
If you want me to create a new request I will.

YOU ROCK MARTIN!!!
As always thanks for the amazing and awesome software.

Rich Shumaker
EDIT - The other part was to not set the gain to maximum by default and that I understand is a much harder sell as it has been that way for 21 versions and MANY PEOPLE will be confused and say "WHY DID THIS CHANGE?" That still won't stop me from mentioning it as vMix is a professional product that has some quirks that professionals might not appreciate.(I keep imagining sound guys yelling in my ear Why are they Maxxed Out all the time', heheh
Edit #2 - I updated the Title of this request to more accurately represent what I meant - I want a visual reference of what the audio is doing with numbers. I got specific on my scale but any numbers are better than no numbers to me.

Yes, improving the audio metering would help a lot. On a recent show, I kept the advanced audio settings window open for my audio guy to check his levels more accurately. It worked well, but it's quite a kludgey workaround.

I vote for this 100 times. The audio system is woefully amiss in that it lacks professional features like "proper metering". So I am always guestimating settings. Plus, having that extra 12db headroom would be great for those situations where incoming audio is too low. IT's great to be able to open menu after menu to get to a gain fader...but why not put that "audio settings" menu button on the left side menu with everything else on the input too? Why require additional clicks just to get to audio? If vmix had professional audio interface appearance it would greatly enhance it's abilities.

I also wish I could get my X-touch faders to work with the audio and eliminate the need for a mouse to change volumes. I'm still trying to figure out how to achieve this feature in shortcuts.