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Gary Schwartz  
#1 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2013 11:14:37 AM(UTC)
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I have a Lenovo Y510p Ideapad with 2 GEforce 750 cards 8GB Ram and a 1TB 7200rpm harddrive. I am capturing video with 2 Magewell USB HDMI boxes.
Watching the video on the screen even in lower resolutions shows a delay and not real time movement. The captured video on playback is better, but I was wondering if there are settings that would allow me hi res real-time previews and playback.

I thought the Laptop would have enough power to do 3 HDMI cameras at good resolution.
Do I need faster cards, HD, more ram?
admin  
#2 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2013 3:19:44 PM(UTC)
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Hi Gary,

Do you mean a time delay or does the video appear to be at a lower frame rate (not smooth)?

If you are capturing in HD, then you might be hitting a limitation of USB.
Even with USB 3.0 only one capture device can be used at a time in HD.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
Gary Schwartz  
#3 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2013 4:09:54 PM(UTC)
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Hi Martin,
Yes the video does not appear smooth.
I downloaded the Cineform codec to see if that would help, but you are saying I cannot get 3 cameras to record HD in real time?

The application I am using VMix for is to create videos of workshops and lectures to market via DVD and also post online for download.

Given what you know of my equipment what would be the best settings for me to capture the best quality possible without overtaxing the software and the system?

Again, I have 2 Magewell USB boxes, and an audio capture box with the third USB port on the laptop with 2 mics going in directly via a USB audio interface all going into a Lenovo Y510p laptop with 2 fast video cards.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Best
Gary
h2video.nl  
#4 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2013 4:56:45 PM(UTC)
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hi gary,

it's unlikely you have three seperate usb ports on your laptop. usually two usb ports share one connection on the board.

you could start by using just one cam and check the results. if ok add another, etc. if it does no work, try updating your software and drivers especially the usb drivers. Using usb3 - the type, make and driver version could be crucial. epecially when using blackmagic this is an issu, not sure for your type of usb device.

so good luck and try building up slowly, it took me some time to get all things lined up.

ps also try your luck using a desktop pc. this will also make a difference...

greetings stefan
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Gary Schwartz on 9/14/2013(UTC)
admin  
#5 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2013 5:20:11 PM(UTC)
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Hi Gary,

USB 3.0 has a limited amount of bandwidth that varies depending on the laptop.
On most laptops you may be able to plug in only one smoothly, on others two or three.

This is why recommend using thunderbolt for multiple camera inputs on a laptop.
This is usually done by installing Windows on something like a MacBook and using an external thunderbolt case
with a quad SDI capture card. There are some details on our Supported Hardware page.

Regards,

Martin
vMix



Gary Schwartz  
#6 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2013 5:56:20 PM(UTC)
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Disappointing news.
Budget constraints prohibit me from the $3000.00 Osprey card, external box with a Mac.
This is the 2nd PC laptop (the first was an Asus S5 with thunderbolt, but it was not compatible with Blackmagic or any other Thunderbolt and the onboard Video card was bare minimum)

I've tried and the 2 USB boxes by Magewell seem to work well and are less than 1/2 the cost of the Mac, Osprey and Thunderbolt option.

The Lenovo Y510p has 2 USB 3.0 ports (of superior performance if you can believe Lenovo)that Magewell converts well into 3 HDMI inputs. The Lenovo also has an extra USB 2.0 port I can use for Audio. I like the configuration, but am sad to see the poor performance of the USB 3.0 option.

Given I cannot change equipment, is the best option very low res recording?
Are there other driver options as per the CineForm codec that make USB 3.0 useful?

any tips on tweaking VMix to make the most of what I have would be appreciated.

Thanks again for the fast responses. I hope to resolve this soon.
Gary
Gary Schwartz  
#7 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2013 6:09:29 PM(UTC)
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I contacted the support for Magewell and their response regarding the slowness of the USB 3.0 boxes is to see if there is a way to open up the buffer in VMix

he writes "Ask VMix if they can open up the buffer in their software, I have seen this with other softwares and once the buffer is opened up things hummm smoothly."

I'm using the CineForm codec and have tweaked the GEForce cards tying them together and accelerating them as much as I can.
It's better, smooth image, but a very slight delay still.

Thanks again for bearing with me on this.
I look forward to seeing if the above is possible.

Gary
h2video.nl  
#8 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:16:43 AM(UTC)
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gary,

i don't think your lenovo machine has two completely seperate usb3 ports. you could check this with lenovo and check to see in the hardware settings if the ports share one hub. most likely.


this means you are putting all incomming traffic through one usb 3 chip. this would be the most likely bottleneck.

did you try with one hooked up only? what is the result.

i usually record in mpeg2 format because it is the easiest and less demanding option. ofcause depending on what you want to do with it ( I publish to internet 720p ).

last: i had some problems with sound delay. this turned out to be something with the windows player. so export a test and review n a seperate computer with a different video player to see if you really have a sound issue.

last: i record the sound through input to the camera and record it with the hdmi signal directly into vmix. so you can shed the sound input and record a master on this camera.

good luck.
stefan
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Gary Schwartz on 9/15/2013(UTC)
Gary Schwartz  
#9 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2013 11:46:49 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Stefan,
The Lenovo has 2 separate USB 3.0 ports plus one USB 2.0 port I am using for audio so as not to tax the Magewell USB HDMI box.
I feel confident, the Lenovo y510p meets the requirements for a recommended system other than an SSD drive.

I've done a test with one camera on one port and same result. Other than the very slight slowness, the picture and sound are great.
This leads me to believe it is either some setting issue or the limitation of the USB 3.0. Agreed Thunderbolt is slightly better at it than USB 3.0, but from what I've read, USB 3.0 is supposed to able to handle HDMI.

Before I go back to Magewell and find out if those boxes are capable of working with VMix I would like to try working with the settings such as buffer, codecs and settings in VMix and on the GEForce video cards.

My problem is I am not very knowledgeable about video and the settings and terminology. I am a lay person working to get a system working. I am reading what I can about it in the Help file, but was hoping someone else has a similar problem. Or there is someone who would know what to do in terms of tweaking the software.

Admittedly, I don't have expertise in what all the settings mean, so I hope to learn from this forum.
Thank you and Martin for all your help so far.

Gary
admin  
#10 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2013 1:41:17 PM(UTC)
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Hi Gary,

Would you be able to upload a small recording to demonstrate the slowness?
I am still a bit unsure if you mean a delay or if the frame rate itself is lower.

If its a delay then that is that is to be expected as it takes a small amount of time for
the video to get from the camera, to the capture and then into vMix.

Regarding the USB 3.0 ports, on all the systems I have seen, all the ports are shared.
So the bandwidth is cut in half for two ports and so on.

One possible thing to try is make sure the frame rate selected in vMix settings exactly
matches the settings when adding the capture. Also make sure this frame rate matches the camera is sending.

It's likely to be a USB 3.0 problem though unfortunately, in all our testing only one USB 3.0 capture can be used at a time/

Regards,

Martin
vMix
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Gary Schwartz on 9/15/2013(UTC)
Gary Schwartz  
#11 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:49:31 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Martin,
If there is a slight delay onscreen but movement is smooth and natural, then maybe I am OK.
I will do another test and post a test to show. I am recording 3 cameras at 1240 x 720 which is fine for my purposes.

I will check the frame rates and make sure they are the same. What is the default for a Panasonic little HD camcorder? 29.5?
I am setting the bit rate to 25 and opening the recording buffer as much as I can.
I will also save to MPEG2 also. AVI is overkill for what I need.

I may have been told by the computer salesman that there were 2 separate USB 3.0 ports on the Lenovo Y510p. It appears that both ports record well and exactly the same. I think Magewell made their product for such a configuration. They are great boxes. Small and so convenient.

Regarding Cineform codec. It looks like I must purchase a GoVideo Premire editor to get the HD license. I am able to test it for 15 days to make sure.
If that is the recommended codec, then I will get it. Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Also Microsoft media player hates files made in Vmix. It often crashes. I am having much more success playing back with VLC player.
It may have been something in Media Player that distorted playback too. I don't know. Have you had any experience with MS Media Player?

In any event, I will do a test and send a link and live with the slight onscreen delay if all else is well.

Thanks,
Here's to a successful test...
Gary Schwartz  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:45:09 AM(UTC)
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Problem is solved. No delay capturing mpg or avi at the lower HD res. Settings are matching camera and software frame rate. The video buffer is set very high and we get great results. I am using the Cineform codec.

Thanks for all your input.
I've got a great 3 camera system that is super easy to use and portable.

The Magewell 3.0 USB1200 and USB104 and the Lenovo y510p work great. I get great clear audio without any hiss or hum from a Steinberg U22 USB 2.0 audio capture box.
I'm using every USB port on the computer and it seems to handle it well.

This is the most compact way to go as all devices are powered by the computer. No external Card and power supply needed.
Everything fits neatly into one backpack. 3 HD cameras, capture devices, computer, cables and even tripods.

My test is at http://vimeo.com/74728999.

Thanks again.
Gary
r@wisla  
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:26:06 AM(UTC)
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I'm glad your issue is solved and your setup sounds great.

Could you, please, share with us your Lenovo y510p specification? What's the CPU, RAM, HDD (SSD?) and Graphic Card there?

Confirm also what Magewells you are using:
- XI104XUSB - http://www.magewell.com/...sb_features.html?lang=en
- XI200XUSB - http://www.magewell.com/...sb_features.html?lang=en
Gary Schwartz  
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:55:50 AM(UTC)
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I'm using a Lenovo y510p laptop with an Intel i7-4700mq cpu. It has 8 GB Ram.
It comes with a 1TB 7200 rpm HD
It has two NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M graphics cards, one internal and an external (upgradeable) card occupying the slot reserved for a DVD drive. Both cards can work together by changing the SLI settings in the NVIDIA control panel which is not the default setting.
It has 2 USB 3.0 ports for the Magewell boxes and one USB 2.0 for an audio input. The Magewell XI104XUSB has audio/video inputs as well.

The laptop only comes with Windows 8 pre-installed and I had to downgrade it to Windows 7 Ultimate (which was not easy) because the drivers for the Magewell XI104XUSB - and - XI200XUSB - do not work with Windows 8.

Geez, I sound like a techie, but this was all learned the hard way.
r@wisla  
#15 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2013 4:20:21 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for sharing. Impressive, powerfull unit.
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