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mjgraves  
#1 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2018 2:00:59 PM(UTC)
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Logitech has a new webcam, although it was launched rather quietly.

"Rally" is a 4k/UHD PTZ webcam with a 15x lens intended for video conference applications. However, priced around $1200 USD it could fit well into low-end production applications. It's sole connectivity is USB 3.0

https://www.mgraves.org/...lly-a-new-4k-ptz-webcam/

It would be interesting to compare this camera to other low-end PTZ models, like PTZ Optics or Newtek.

Rally is actually part of a modular video conference end-point system. For our purposes, only the PTZ camera is interesting.
kgoodyer  
#2 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2018 1:33:37 PM(UTC)
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Think BRIO on a swivel base. $200 webcam on $1000 base. I think I would go PTZoptics $600 camera with a $200 lens on a $600 base and get built dual streaming, standards based PTZ, HDMI & SDI out, Option for NDI output.
mjgraves  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2018 2:18:33 PM(UTC)
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kgoodyer - I'm not sure that's a fair characterization. I have Brio, PTZ Pro and every other Logitech webcam since the C9000.

CC3000e and PTZ Pro, PTZ Pro 2 were better cameras than you might expect. As good as the PTZ Optics models that I've tried.

Direct streaming from a camera is zero interest to me.

I have a decent relationship with Logitech, so I'm trying to get a loaner for evaluation.
mjgraves  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2018 5:46:51 PM(UTC)
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Update - I reached out to Logitech and it looks like I will be getting a Rally demo/loaner for evaluation.

More news surely to follow.
mjgraves  
#5 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2018 10:37:38 AM(UTC)
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Further update: The Rally webcam has arrived. It works well with vMix, even in 4K. We will be profiling it next Wednesday on Tom Sinclair's Streaming Idiots Show.
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SHMD on 9/26/2018(UTC)
c_paul  
#6 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2018 2:57:42 PM(UTC)
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Please can you advise how you have connected the camera and what settings you have used. We have one of the Rally cameras, bought in the UK and we have been unable to get it to work on the multicorder in either UHD or even HD.

Our system is set up for UK standards that is PAL at 25p or 50p and we regularly multicord 4 cameras in our teaching environment, the Sony AX1 uses 2160p50 via HDMI and the others are a mix of 1080p50 via HDMI or 1080p25 via USB.

In our system when the Rally is the only connected camera we see approximately 50% dropped frames from that camera.

So far in 14 days of interchange with Logitech they have not been able to come up with a solution, and in one email they said:

"This device is designed to be utilized as the main camera component of a conference system. If you are using this device and recording with 3 other cameras simultaneously, this is the reason for the quality loss. When splitting multiple video feeds along with this, you are going to have a lesser quality recording. Have you attempted to use this device without the other 3 cameras?"

We are about to return the device to the supplier as not fit for purpose. I am hoping that you may be able to help get the camera working as it could be a very cost effective solution.
mjgraves  
#7 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2018 4:54:11 PM(UTC)
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I configure the Rally for the desired resolution using MJPEG as the encoding type. At resolutions to up 1080p it's flawless, with no dropped frames or added latency.

At 4K30 there is some extra latency. It's exactly what we saw with the Brio webcam in the past. I attribute this to the use of the Direct Show access method.

vMix was extended to leverage the MMF access method for Brio. That eliminated the latency issue. I suspect that same approach is required for Rally.
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ThomasK on 10/1/2018(UTC)
ThomasK  
#8 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2018 2:38:54 PM(UTC)
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We would be highly intersted in using the Logitech Conference Cam, which supports 4k and 120°.
Great for a townhall meeting running with 1080p and using the 4k as "zoom".

Must the MMF access method also be adjusted by the vMix team so we would be able to use 4k in VMix?
mjgraves  
#9 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2018 9:32:53 PM(UTC)
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ThomasK wrote:
We would be highly intersted in using the Logitech Conference Cam, which supports 4k and 120°.
Great for a townhall meeting running with 1080p and using the 4k as "zoom".

Must the MMF access method also be adjusted by the vMix team so we would be able to use 4k in VMix?


Be careful! There is no real PTZ with the Meetup product. Synthesizing zoom with a hi-res sensor is nothing like having a zoom lens. The zoom range is VERY limited. And the zoom movement is not usable. It steps in harshly in jumps.

The zoom range is limited by the ration of the sensor resolution to the output frame size. At least if you don't want image quality to suffer. That means 3-6x typically. That is, with a 4k sensor and output of 1080p or 720p.

If you are setting the cameras output resolution for 1080p or less you won't need to use the MMF access method.

I think that you'd be better off with Rally, even if it costs a bit more. The real PTZ lens is worth it for the flexibility.
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ThomasK on 10/2/2018(UTC)
ThomasK  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2018 10:27:46 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the reply. Our critical must have is the 120° field of view.

The idea would be to use the camera without any zoom from the camera itself in 4k mode.

So we can provide both an overview shot of the entire panel, and close ups of individuals through vMix cropped virtual inputs. The final project streaming output would go with 1080p.

Or?
mjgraves  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:27:48 AM(UTC)
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OK. Not saying that MeetUp won't work. It certainly could. Most especially if you don't want movement between shots.

Rally doesn't have that wide a FOV. Nor Brio.

Have you considered Mevo? It has a 4K sensor and 150 degree FOV. It does what you're seeking automatically. Or so I've heard. I'm told that as of quite recently it can stream to any RTMP server. That means that you can use it as a source for vMix.

You might also take a look at Panacast (https://www.panacast.com/) which is a very wide perspective USB webcam. Where other cameras have a single 4k sensor, Panacast uses three 1080p sensors, stitching them together into a 180 x 54 degree scene. It can pass the entire scene, or a 1080p shot from anywhere along that scene.
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ThomasK on 10/2/2018(UTC)
ThomasK  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:43:36 AM(UTC)
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We evaluated the Mevo, but that time it was Livestream only. Great its not able to stream via RTMP. Will there be a noticeable delay if they stream via RTMP by design? Do you have any experience?

Thanks,
Thomas
mjgraves  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2018 12:31:10 PM(UTC)
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ThomasK wrote:
We evaluated the Mevo, but that time it was Livestream only. Great its not able to stream via RTMP. Will there be a noticeable delay if they stream via RTMP by design? Do you have any experience?

Thanks,
Thomas

I've not had hands-on with Mevo. I do expect some delay when using RTMP, at very least because it's sending H.264.

My impression is that it pushes the stream to a server. So you would need to an RTMP server acting as a relay, then have vMix pull the stream from there.
ThomasK  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2018 3:52:11 PM(UTC)
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Quote:

My impression is that it pushes the stream to a server. So you would need to an RTMP server acting as a relay, then have vMix pull the stream from there.


Checked their documentation, its pushing to a server. So a RTMP server "bridge" via e.g. nginx or MIST should get it into vMix. Just worried about the delay adding that route. Interesting piece of hardware though.
mjgraves  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2018 10:52:48 PM(UTC)
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ThomasK wrote:

Checked their documentation, its pushing to a server. So a RTMP server "bridge" via e.g. nginx or MIST should get it into vMix. Just worried about the delay adding that route. Interesting piece of hardware though.


Agreed. In that respect,the Panacast camera is more interesting. Although, it's a more traditional webcam. Not exactly great glass.
mjgraves  
#16 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 4:40:47 AM(UTC)
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