logo

Live Production Software Forums

www.vmix.com

Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error
Implementation of Ravenna for AES67 into vMix (like ST2110)
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Previous Topic Next Topic
DWAM  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 8:11:26 PM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Hi!

Here's a feature request regarding the use of Digital Audio (AES67) over IP into vMix using Ravenna, an open standard for realtime audio over IP

https://www.ravenna-network.com/

RAVENNA is an open technology. Developed by ALC NetworX in Germany, all the information about implementing RAVENNA is freely available in the public domain.

This standard has already a lot of broadcast and audio partners (manufacturers of hardware solutions, software developers, etc) and was chosen for SMPTE ST2110

AES67 was ratified by the Audio Engineering Society in 2013.
It is not an audio networking solution on its own, but a series of interoperability guidelines that, if followed, mean that different audio networking protocols can communicate with each other.
This interoperability extends to SMPTE ST2110*. It has been agreed that the audio element of the standard is fully based on the AES67 standard.
So, the question for video equipment manufacturers is: "How do I implement AES67 into my products?". Ravenna is a free and open solution for this.

That's why I think it would be great for vMix to support this standard...

Thus Ravenna is compatible with Dante (RAV2SAP) and other audio over IP protocols and provides free software solutions like a Virtual Soundcard... vMix could benefit all this new ecosystem and production workflows over IP. Along with NDI for the video part...

To support this request with specific use cases, I must say that at certain levels of production it's no longer possible to use analog audio. I'm involved in projects (artistic productions) where sound engineers refuse to use analog in order to maintain very high quality audio (no more AD/DA conversions). It'd be much easier if vMix could use Bonjour (as it does for NDI) for AES67 audio sources discovery on the network and use them directly for production.
It would be very interesting too if vMix could originate AES67 feeds too (from inputs and buses), to a venue sound control room or PA for example or external recorders (there's a lot of FR for this if I remember it well).

Ravenna's website is full of information about who uses it, why, how... I believe it's an obvious standard for audio over IP that vMix should support and be part of. An opportunity to bring vMix to the next level and be the first live production software to integrate AES67 natively. Another step towards excellence...

If you don't know Ravenna, I invite you to visit their website and watch their videos... If you don't really understand what's it's meant for and why it's important, just think that it's sort of the audio equivalent of NDI and imagine what it would be if we could transport the highest quality of audio as easily as NDI feeds over the network for all aspects of production and diffusion.

Guillaume

PS : Ravenna is the italian city where Dante died ! ;o)
Back to top
WWW
thanks 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
Ario on 9/26/2018(UTC)

Wanna join the discussion?! Login to your vMix Forums forum account, or Register a new forum account.
Back to top  
Ario  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2018 7:38:33 AM(UTC)
Ario

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/2/2015(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: NL

Thanks: 164 times
Was thanked: 19 time(s) in 16 post(s)
Inferno!
+1
Back to top
thanks 1 user thanked Ario for this useful post.
DWAM on 9/26/2018(UTC)
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:22:16 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Back to top
WWW
DWAM  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:28:12 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Sienna, a well-known actor in the NDI world, has already developed an AES67 to NDI Gateway

The AES67 to NDI Gateway includes an SAP listener function to automatically detect any multicast AES67 sources on the network, and automatically publish an NDI version of each source...
The NDI Sources are visible to all NDI applications on your local area network, but no processing takes place until one or more NDI applications connect to the NDI source, at which point the AES67 to NDI engine starts up a low latency, transparent translator between the AES67 source and the new NDI stream.
When all NDI applications release the source, AES67 to NDI will once again hibernate that source, keeping it offered to all NDI users, but consuming no processing load.
This seamless mechanism provides one-click, instant connectivity between your AES67 audio devices and your NDI Devices.
The AES67 to NDI Gateway will form a key component in the NDI Processing engine for the NDI Smart Processing Router product and is also available as a stand alone product (for macOS, Ubuntu and Windows)

http://www.sienna-tv.com/ndi/aes67.html
Back to top
WWW
mavik  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2018 4:59:06 PM(UTC)
mavik

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/23/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,214
Man
Location: Germany

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 168 time(s) in 150 post(s)
Supporting Ravenna opens vMix for much more than just AES67
Back to top
WWW
thanks 1 user thanked mavik for this useful post.
DWAM on 10/16/2018(UTC)
DWAM  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:15:14 PM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Couldn't agree more. It's a new world opening for audio in live production. Exactly like NDI was a game changer for IP Video at our level (ST2110 is by far superior I think)
Back to top
WWW
thanks 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
PFBM on 10/16/2018(UTC)
PFBM  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:21:31 PM(UTC)
PFBM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/30/2011(UTC)
Posts: 308
Man
Location: Portugal

Thanks: 347 times
Was thanked: 35 time(s) in 30 post(s)
+1 !!!
Back to top
WWW
stevespaw  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 1:33:45 AM(UTC)
stevespaw

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 482
Man
Location: Kansas City, MO USA

Thanks: 151 times
Was thanked: 75 time(s) in 57 post(s)
Not to be antagonistic, but why Ravanna over Dante? Because it is free? Asking for Bonjour etc. is exactly what Dante is over AES67. (Dante Controller is free and it is Awesome) That is why Dante is taking over everywhere. I can buy Shure wireless mic systems with Dante out right now as an example. The Audinate hardware is very cheap actually. And 29 bucks for Virtual Sound Card is too much ????

The new Domain Manager is SUPER powerful, but it is too expensive, I give you that. Does Ravanna have tools like this?

I am just wondering what you find exciting about Ravanna?

Thanks,
Steve
Back to top
DWAM  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 1:55:17 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Steve

A few reasons :

- Dante is proprietary. Ravenna is in the public domain...
- Not all Dante is AES67 compliant, in fact only a small fraction of Dante ecosystem is
- Ravenna AES67 was chosen for ST2110, I consider this important if we want vMix to take part of this ecosystem someday
- Ravenna offers a bridge to SAP and Manual discovery protocols so that all major IP audio can work together. Dante doesn't, it's a closed ecosystem
- Ravenna AES67 is aiming at broadcast first. Dante is not. Check their respective partners list...
- Sienna developped a gateway to AES67 for NDI. Why didn't they do it for Dante? Maybe for some of the reasons I just wrote...
- Ravenna AES67 is better than Dante when it comes to timings and sync, that's one of the reason it was chosen for ST2110.

That's what comes to my mind immediately...

I have nothing against Dante, but implementing Ravenna AES67 into vMix makes it possible to stick to Dante anyway as well as it opens to other IP audio ecosystems. The opposite is not true.

Guillaume
Back to top
WWW
pm  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 4:01:48 AM(UTC)
pm

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 184

Thanks: 10 times
Was thanked: 32 time(s) in 27 post(s)
In my opinion, vMix is already AES67 aware. We can use one of the different virtual soundcards available on the market and add it as an input to vMix:





So I'm not sure if it makes sense to integrate an own full AES67 stack according to ST2110-30 directly into vMix.

What I agree is that there should be some kind of discovery and management of the streams. But that's not part of the ST2110-30 specification, only the SDP is defined there. SAP seems more or less a temporary solution because there is no standard yet. There is some progress regarding control and discovery standardisation: AMWA NMOS IS-04, IS-05 and probably IS-06. But manufactors aren't ready to implement that.

Regards,
Patrick
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Privacy Policy | Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.127 seconds.