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kevev  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:07:13 PM(UTC)
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Hello, we are planning on sending live video to a local television station for ingest and live rebroadcast over the air. I am wondering what hardware/software other people have used to perform this feat.

I have researched products like DVEO D-Streamer IP/DIG as I am guessing the station can ingest HD-SDI or HDMI. But I am not sure as we have not communicated with the station yet. I would like to go into this conversation with some knowledge and assurance that we should have a stable stream. Any info from someone with experience would be appreciated. :)
spencerm24  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:22:54 PM(UTC)
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I'd be shocked if the TV Station didn't have SDI injest capabilities. That is your best bet for both quality and reliability.
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:14:42 PM(UTC)
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First thing to do is talk with the TV station. They must tell what they want and how.

With major TV channels, in general they want interlaced feed. In this case you will need a "contribution encoder" that is compatible with their contribution decoder. TS streaming is the standard in this case.

But we can be no help here. The TV has the control and answers for you. Talk to them. Ask them what they want and come back here afterwards in case you need advices.

Guillaume

PS : DVEO devices are toys in the broadcast industry. Don't mention that if you want to be taken seriously
MeanTime69  
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:42:55 PM(UTC)
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I have done this with vMix using a Decklink Mini Monitor HD-SDI out and set it to external in vMix to feed a microwave truck.
kevev  
#5 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2018 7:32:40 PM(UTC)
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Thank You guys for the reply. We will get with the station to see what they want.

These type of devices can do interlaced video. I just need to be sure that 8-10mbps would be enough bandwidth for good enough quality.

Also looking at AVIWEST StreamHUB, AdvancedDigital Inc. Novus-RD.
kgoodyer  
#6 Posted : Friday, June 1, 2018 12:10:11 AM(UTC)
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I own and manage a total of 24 stations, that are fed to multiple broadcasters, and have been doing so for 20 years.

Every broadcaster has a different requirement... But they all want signal stability and as pointed out (50 or 59.97(fields)ps interlaced)

My terrestrial broadcaster requires an ASI Transport stream, that is directly MUXED without modification into the actual transmissions, Jitter, latency, and general packet loss is the big issue here. I use a dedicated private IP leased line for these guys. I use 2-pass Harmonic or Grass Vally hardware encoders for these services, at the far end is a simple IP to ASI converter box.

My Primary satellite broadcasters insist on SDI, again I use a private IP leased line and have Harmonic Contribution encoders, and Harmonic IRD's (Broadcast speak for Decoder - Integrated Receiving Device) to decode it back to SDI for handover.

My Secondary satellite broadcasters required delivery over the open Internet. For this again I deliver using Harmonic encoders, with ProMPEG FEC (Forward error Correction), and then encode the output TS using the ARQ protocol to ensure reliable delivery over a broken internet - The internet is realy bad a getting UDP packets to their destination reliably.

My Primary Cable Broadcasters wanted raw MPEG transport streams, delivered over the internet, again sticking to harmonic MPEG/h.264 encoders which feed ARQ encoders (in this case ZIXI as the Cable company already had ZIXI decoders) and the transport stream as with my terrestrial broadcasters muxed the stream directly into their transmission.

I deliver IPTV to our national terrestrial DVB broadcaster as Apple HLS streams, using a pair of PC's (Primary & Backup) reading the IP TS output of the harmonic decoders as the input, and serving HLS to their EDGE servers.

I have studio's in Thailand and Canada which actually both contribute back to me at 1920x1080i50 using just VMIX and a propriety software package running on the same machine.

Every broadcaster is different..... I am a big fan of Harmonic equipment, but also recommend Tanburg/Ericsson, Thomson/Grass Valley.

You need a high quality encoder, not a toy, especially if they are going to use your encode (as opposed to a re-encode from SDI). If your being re-encoded, if possible, contribute at twice the bit rate they are broadcasting at to prevent re-encoding artefacts.

If you want to do it on the cheep, there are ways to do it, but NEVER tell the broadcaster how your contributing - just find out how THEY want it delivered, and then find the right solution.

PM me if you need help doing it the cheep way, especially if your using VMIX as your primary production tool. I am the contribution king. LOL

Keith
thanks 2 users thanked kgoodyer for this useful post.
kevev on 6/1/2018(UTC), Followyourblissmedia on 1/17/2019(UTC)
kevev  
#7 Posted : Friday, June 1, 2018 1:26:47 PM(UTC)
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Wow! Thank You for the info. I just got word from the station that their equipment supplier suggested Teradek Cube 605 encoder/transmitter+TS license & Teradek Cube 625 receiver/decoer. The sales guy says they have customers who do this all of the time. What do you think?

kgoodyer wrote:
I own and manage a total of 24 stations, that are fed to multiple broadcasters, and have been doing so for 20 years.

Every broadcaster has a different requirement... But they all want signal stability and as pointed out (50 or 59.97(fields)ps interlaced)

My terrestrial broadcaster requires an ASI Transport stream, that is directly MUXED without modification into the actual transmissions, Jitter, latency, and general packet loss is the big issue here. I use a dedicated private IP leased line for these guys. I use 2-pass Harmonic or Grass Vally hardware encoders for these services, at the far end is a simple IP to ASI converter box.

My Primary satellite broadcasters insist on SDI, again I use a private IP leased line and have Harmonic Contribution encoders, and Harmonic IRD's (Broadcast speak for Decoder - Integrated Receiving Device) to decode it back to SDI for handover.

My Secondary satellite broadcasters required delivery over the open Internet. For this again I deliver using Harmonic encoders, with ProMPEG FEC (Forward error Correction), and then encode the output TS using the ARQ protocol to ensure reliable delivery over a broken internet - The internet is realy bad a getting UDP packets to their destination reliably.

My Primary Cable Broadcasters wanted raw MPEG transport streams, delivered over the internet, again sticking to harmonic MPEG/h.264 encoders which feed ARQ encoders (in this case ZIXI as the Cable company already had ZIXI decoders) and the transport stream as with my terrestrial broadcasters muxed the stream directly into their transmission.

I deliver IPTV to our national terrestrial DVB broadcaster as Apple HLS streams, using a pair of PC's (Primary & Backup) reading the IP TS output of the harmonic decoders as the input, and serving HLS to their EDGE servers.

I have studio's in Thailand and Canada which actually both contribute back to me at 1920x1080i50 using just VMIX and a propriety software package running on the same machine.

Every broadcaster is different..... I am a big fan of Harmonic equipment, but also recommend Tanburg/Ericsson, Thomson/Grass Valley.

You need a high quality encoder, not a toy, especially if they are going to use your encode (as opposed to a re-encode from SDI). If your being re-encoded, if possible, contribute at twice the bit rate they are broadcasting at to prevent re-encoding artefacts.

If you want to do it on the cheep, there are ways to do it, but NEVER tell the broadcaster how your contributing - just find out how THEY want it delivered, and then find the right solution.

PM me if you need help doing it the cheep way, especially if your using VMIX as your primary production tool. I am the contribution king. LOL

Keith

DWAM  
#8 Posted : Friday, June 1, 2018 3:48:33 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
I am a big fan of Harmonic equipment, but also recommend Tanburg/Ericsson, Thomson/Grass Valley.

Harmonic stuff are great for sure. I also love ATEME contribution encoder like the Kyrion series
https://www.ateme.com/kyrion-cm5000/

OTOH, Open Source OBE is also a cheaper way to go. Appliances or DIY
http://obe.tv/

Guillaume
kjones9999  
#9 Posted : Monday, June 4, 2018 11:10:07 AM(UTC)
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i'll tag in here ---

I have a cable channel that I run that is fed by vmix. We do several live events where we basically send RTMP from the remote vmix and play it on the channel vmix as an rtmp but the quality is not great. How can I improve? Willing to go with something beside vmix if necessary on either end...
usmedia  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 5, 2018 1:35:15 PM(UTC)
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kjones9999 wrote:
i'll tag in here ---

I have a cable channel that I run that is fed by vmix. We do several live events where we basically send RTMP from the remote vmix and play it on the channel vmix as an rtmp but the quality is not great. How can I improve? Willing to go with something beside vmix if necessary on either end...



Try to use Medialooks (medialooks.com) (SDI/NDI in SDI/NDI out). We use this solution worldwide on various events. With a datarate of 20Mbit was the picture good enough for most of our applications.

Best,
Jan
macgiver76  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 5:24:00 PM(UTC)
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Hello, I've been using a pc with Vmix and a decklink minimonitor for more than a year, I've never encountered any problems.
I use linux and Nginx as a "pass" server, so I do not have to request the opening of doors to their network system. Everything works perfectly, I have a 3-second delay.
If you want more info, contact me.
Hello!
kjones9999  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 9:08:11 PM(UTC)
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macgiver76 wrote:
Hello, I've been using a pc with Vmix and a decklink minimonitor for more than a year, I've never encountered any problems.
I use linux and Nginx as a "pass" server, so I do not have to request the opening of doors to their network system. Everything works perfectly, I have a 3-second delay.
If you want more info, contact me.
Hello!



I appreciate that .. I do this now but with mistserver. But I am not happy with the results... I send an rtmp stream to mistserver and then play as an rtmp on the vmix receive end. I wonder if vmix actually just passes the datastream, or if it decodes then rencodes the actually image.
watchfulone  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 9:47:09 PM(UTC)
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kgoodyer wrote:
I own and manage a total of 24 stations, that are fed to multiple broadcasters, and have been doing so for 20 years.

Every broadcaster has a different requirement... But they all want signal stability and as pointed out (50 or 59.97(fields)ps interlaced)

My terrestrial broadcaster requires an ASI Transport stream, that is directly MUXED without modification into the actual transmissions, Jitter, latency, and general packet loss is the big issue here. I use a dedicated private IP leased line for these guys. I use 2-pass Harmonic or Grass Vally hardware encoders for these services, at the far end is a simple IP to ASI converter box.

My Primary satellite broadcasters insist on SDI, again I use a private IP leased line and have Harmonic Contribution encoders, and Harmonic IRD's (Broadcast speak for Decoder - Integrated Receiving Device) to decode it back to SDI for handover.

My Secondary satellite broadcasters required delivery over the open Internet. For this again I deliver using Harmonic encoders, with ProMPEG FEC (Forward error Correction), and then encode the output TS using the ARQ protocol to ensure reliable delivery over a broken internet - The internet is realy bad a getting UDP packets to their destination reliably.

My Primary Cable Broadcasters wanted raw MPEG transport streams, delivered over the internet, again sticking to harmonic MPEG/h.264 encoders which feed ARQ encoders (in this case ZIXI as the Cable company already had ZIXI decoders) and the transport stream as with my terrestrial broadcasters muxed the stream directly into their transmission.

I deliver IPTV to our national terrestrial DVB broadcaster as Apple HLS streams, using a pair of PC's (Primary & Backup) reading the IP TS output of the harmonic decoders as the input, and serving HLS to their EDGE servers.

I have studio's in Thailand and Canada which actually both contribute back to me at 1920x1080i50 using just VMIX and a propriety software package running on the same machine.

Every broadcaster is different..... I am a big fan of Harmonic equipment, but also recommend Tanburg/Ericsson, Thomson/Grass Valley.

You need a high quality encoder, not a toy, especially if they are going to use your encode (as opposed to a re-encode from SDI). If your being re-encoded, if possible, contribute at twice the bit rate they are broadcasting at to prevent re-encoding artefacts.

If you want to do it on the cheep, there are ways to do it, but NEVER tell the broadcaster how your contributing - just find out how THEY want it delivered, and then find the right solution.

PM me if you need help doing it the cheep way, especially if your using VMIX as your primary production tool. I am the contribution king. LOL

Keith




Thanks a million keith i've been looking for information like this for a while, even though i was not the one who requested this info. i'll definitely contact you for help, i'm in Jamaica, my Church want to stream to a local cable network/TV Station so this is good for me.
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