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ElBurrito  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:32:52 PM(UTC)
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I'm new to live video production and Vmix. I'm reading and watching as much as I can to learn. Next football (American football) season I'll be doing a small broadcast for a high school team with 3-4 cameras. I know I obviously need practice before just showing up at a game and doing it next year. One thing I'm going to do is go to some of the school's spring sports and stream them privately for practice and testing.

That said... It would be nice to practice doing sports NOW. Are there any resources that have free game footage with multiple camera footage available to use to practice with? Or is anyone here that does sports willing to send me some of their recorded raw footage from multiple cameras a game I could use to practice like I'm doing a real broadcast? That might be too much to ask but figured I'd ask...
SportsNetUSA.net  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:43:42 PM(UTC)
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Does the high school you are planning to do football for next season, have any game video where they used more than one camera that you can use?

If you just want to practice football, and the high school team you'll be working with isn't in the playoffs are there any junior colleges in your area that are playing in post season football games this weekend? Also, you could shoot/practice at Pop Warner games (it's football), but make sure you get permission from the organization.

High school sports seasons overlap. Now with HS football in the playoffs, boys/girls basketball has started. There should be many opportunities to practice live high school sports all the way until June. After that, summer leagues.

The unexpected has a way of happening at live games, that doesn't occur when you test in the comfort of your studio or home.

thanks 1 user thanked SportsNetUSA.net for this useful post.
ElBurrito on 11/14/2017(UTC)
ElBurrito  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:57:32 PM(UTC)
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SportsNetUSA.net wrote:
Does the high school you are planning to do football for next season, have any game video where they used more than one camera that you can use?

If you just want to practice football, and the high school team you'll be working with isn't in the playoffs are there any junior colleges in your area that are playing in post season football games this weekend? Also, you could shoot/practice at Pop Warner games (it's football), but make sure you get permission from the organization.

High school sports seasons overlap. Now with HS football in the playoffs, boys/girls basketball has started. There should be many opportunities to practice live high school sports all the way until June. After that, summer leagues.

The unexpected has a way of happening at live games, that doesn't occur when you test in the comfort of your studio or home.



The unexpected, yes I know that will be true! That's why I'm trying to get as prepared as possible. Doing football is out of the question until next season. I'll have to practice on other sports. It would be nice to start now at home though if I could get footage because I won't have the cameras for a little while for going out in the field.
NHT  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, November 15, 2017 1:17:48 PM(UTC)
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Are your cameras going to manned or locked off?

There are 2 main elements of live sports directing and switching.

1. Is obviously pushing the right button at the right time.
2. Is directing your camera personnel if you have them.
ElBurrito  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, November 15, 2017 1:21:07 PM(UTC)
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NHT wrote:
Are your cameras going to manned or locked off?

There are 2 main elements of live sports directing and switching.

1. Is obviously pushing the right button at the right time.
2. Is directing your camera personnel if you have them.


They will be manned. So I'll be telling them what camera is on currently, the next camera that will go on (tell them to stay on their current shot or get a shot of the crowd etc.).
NHT  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:02:12 PM(UTC)
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ElBurrito wrote:
NHT wrote:
Are your cameras going to manned or locked off?

There are 2 main elements of live sports directing and switching.

1. Is obviously pushing the right button at the right time.
2. Is directing your camera personnel if you have them.


They will be manned. So I'll be telling them what camera is on currently, the next camera that will go on (tell them to stay on their current shot or get a shot of the crowd etc.).


Here's some basic tips.

If you're not familiar with crossing the line, make sure all your cameras are one side of the field.

When you add your cameras to vMix lay them out so they match their physical position on the field and if you're using keyboard shortcuts or a control surface, again map them to match geographically where the cameras are around the filed, this will make it much easier for you mentally picture where each shot is in your head. E.g. say left to right, cam 1 left side end zone cam 2 touch line, cam 3 wide follow shot, cam 4 right hand end zone.

Set up some default position set-ups with your camera people for things like kick off, field goals, TD's etc so that you can give one instruction and everybody knows where they're going.

Assign different frame sizes to each camera, so that you get a nice cut e.g. don't have your wide follow cam only cover 2 players when your touch line cam is also only covering 2 players or when you cut you'll get a weird jump cut that just changes angle.

When you're directing the cameras stick to one style of instruction like 'coming to 1', 'on 1', if you mix it up with say 'on you 1' or 'cutting to 1' your camera people will get confused very quickly.


ElBurrito  
#7 Posted : Thursday, November 16, 2017 12:23:36 AM(UTC)
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NHT wrote:
ElBurrito wrote:
NHT wrote:
Are your cameras going to manned or locked off?

There are 2 main elements of live sports directing and switching.

1. Is obviously pushing the right button at the right time.
2. Is directing your camera personnel if you have them.


They will be manned. So I'll be telling them what camera is on currently, the next camera that will go on (tell them to stay on their current shot or get a shot of the crowd etc.).


Here's some basic tips.

If you're not familiar with crossing the line, make sure all your cameras are one side of the field.

When you add your cameras to vMix lay them out so they match their physical position on the field and if you're using keyboard shortcuts or a control surface, again map them to match geographically where the cameras are around the filed, this will make it much easier for you mentally picture where each shot is in your head. E.g. say left to right, cam 1 left side end zone cam 2 touch line, cam 3 wide follow shot, cam 4 right hand end zone.

Set up some default position set-ups with your camera people for things like kick off, field goals, TD's etc so that you can give one instruction and everybody knows where they're going.

Assign different frame sizes to each camera, so that you get a nice cut e.g. don't have your wide follow cam only cover 2 players when your touch line cam is also only covering 2 players or when you cut you'll get a weird jump cut that just changes angle.

When you're directing the cameras stick to one style of instruction like 'coming to 1', 'on 1', if you mix it up with say 'on you 1' or 'cutting to 1' your camera people will get confused very quickly.




Lots of helpful stuff there, thanks. What's the best way as far as gear to communicate with the crew?
NHT  
#8 Posted : Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:34:25 AM(UTC)
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On your budget probably cheap Chinese walkies like the Baofeng 888 or Retevis 777 these are cheap and have decent range.

If you're switching and directing you should put your unit on Vox (voice operation) so you can talk hands free.
thanks 1 user thanked NHT for this useful post.
ElBurrito on 11/16/2017(UTC)
ElBurrito  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:06:42 PM(UTC)
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NHT wrote:
On your budget probably cheap Chinese walkies like the Baofeng 888 or Retevis 777 these are cheap and have decent range.

If you're switching and directing you should put your unit on Vox (voice operation) so you can talk hands free.


How about camera recs? I want really good PQ but not sure how much I'll have to spend to get that. Would the Canon XA35 be good enough? Or will I need a higher model or even get away with a lower model?
NHT  
#10 Posted : Friday, November 17, 2017 7:02:08 AM(UTC)
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ElBurrito wrote:
NHT wrote:
On your budget probably cheap Chinese walkies like the Baofeng 888 or Retevis 777 these are cheap and have decent range.

If you're switching and directing you should put your unit on Vox (voice operation) so you can talk hands free.


How about camera recs? I want really good PQ but not sure how much I'll have to spend to get that. Would the Canon XA35 be good enough? Or will I need a higher model or even get away with a lower model?


For sports any half decent full HD camera will give reasonable picture quality.

What's more important for sport is the operation of cameras.

Running up and down the touchline with a small handicam is great for weight but the same light weight makes shots look unstable and over a prolonged period of time will actually fatigue a camera op more than a full sized camera.

If the cameras are going to be on tripods you need to think about how your ops are going to zoom and focus. You really want at least the zoom on a demand (remote control on the tripod pan handle) but preferably both.

This should be your primary research after lens sizes and output format.
ElBurrito  
#11 Posted : Monday, November 27, 2017 1:53:43 PM(UTC)
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NHT wrote:
On your budget probably cheap Chinese walkies like the Baofeng 888 or Retevis 777 these are cheap and have decent range.

If you're switching and directing you should put your unit on Vox (voice operation) so you can talk hands free.


Both of those have vox capabilities where youd on't have to push a button to talk? I've seen conflicting info.
SportsNetUSA.net  
#12 Posted : Monday, November 27, 2017 3:19:06 PM(UTC)
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ElBurrito wrote:

How about camera recs? I want really good PQ but not sure how much I'll have to spend to get that. Would the Canon XA35 be good enough? Or will I need a higher model or even get away with a lower model?


As NHT mentioned any decent full HD camera should do. The Canon XA35 is a very good camera. Be aware that it only outputs 720p 59.94 from it's BNC connector. For 1080P 59.94, you'd have to use the HDMI output.

If you budget allows, look for cameras with HD/SDI outputs at full HD. HDMI outputs are not rugged, and the jacks can't take as much wear and tear of plugging and unplugging. If your crew takes care of your cameras the way you would, then there's not as much of an issue. However, I've had operators damage the HDMI jacks on two of my cameras, including my Canon XA25 in the middle of this season. Cost $300 to be repaired. I have a Sony that I primarily have used for 3 season, and the HDMI jack hasn't been damaged. So a lot depends on keeping the weight of cables from straining the HDMI output jack.
ElBurrito  
#13 Posted : Monday, November 27, 2017 3:41:24 PM(UTC)
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SportsNetUSA.net wrote:
ElBurrito wrote:

How about camera recs? I want really good PQ but not sure how much I'll have to spend to get that. Would the Canon XA35 be good enough? Or will I need a higher model or even get away with a lower model?


As NHT mentioned any decent full HD camera should do. The Canon XA35 is a very good camera. Be aware that it only outputs 720p 59.94 from it's BNC connector. For 1080P 59.94, you'd have to use the HDMI output.

If you budget allows, look for cameras with HD/SDI outputs at full HD. HDMI outputs are not rugged, and the jacks can't take as much wear and tear of plugging and unplugging. If your crew takes care of your cameras the way you would, then there's not as much of an issue. However, I've had operators damage the HDMI jacks on two of my cameras, including my Canon XA25 in the middle of this season. Cost $300 to be repaired. I have a Sony that I primarily have used for 3 season, and the HDMI jack hasn't been damaged. So a lot depends on keeping the weight of cables from straining the HDMI output jack.


Thanks I did not realize that regarding the 720p BNC output! So IIRC if I did go with that line, I should do the XA30 since the only difference between that and the 35 is the SDI. I think right now with everything I need if I go above that cost for cameras it may bust my budget. IIRC the difference between the XA20/25 and newer XA30/35 is low light performance? Everything I use these for should be in well-lit situations so maybe I should find some XA20's at a lower price? Have you used those Canon's as a main wide camera for football?
SportsNetUSA.net  
#14 Posted : Monday, November 27, 2017 3:53:22 PM(UTC)
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Yes, the Canon XA25 is my main camera for one of the teams I shoot. The second camera is usually a Canon G30. The Sony is used for another school for a single camera shoot when I solo.

I like the XA25. It's been an excellent buy (got it slightly used). I just wanted you to be aware of the limitation of the BNC output.
NHT  
#15 Posted : Monday, November 27, 2017 4:43:50 PM(UTC)
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ElBurrito wrote:
NHT wrote:
On your budget probably cheap Chinese walkies like the Baofeng 888 or Retevis 777 these are cheap and have decent range.

If you're switching and directing you should put your unit on Vox (voice operation) so you can talk hands free.


Both of those have vox capabilities where youd on't have to push a button to talk? I've seen conflicting info.


I have both of these and have set both models up with Vox, they're effectively the same design with a different name.

If you buy some, get the USB TUNING CABLE and download CHIRP to program them.
corporatejames  
#16 Posted : Monday, November 27, 2017 6:20:07 PM(UTC)
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Only getting 720p out of the x35? Have not tried 1080P 59.94 but could have used 1080i on the that camera which very common on most cameras with SDI output. I use JVC Broadcast cameras at the moment so been a little while since used the Canon cameras.

Update:
X35 Specs
HD/SD-SDI output
YES (576i, 720P or 1080i, output only, embedded audio and time code)
I was going to get one so glad I got the JVC through sponsorship, But most of high end models ones only do 1080i as well.
ElBurrito  
#17 Posted : Saturday, December 2, 2017 4:36:52 PM(UTC)
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SportsNetUSA.net wrote:
Yes, the Canon XA25 is my main camera for one of the teams I shoot. The second camera is usually a Canon G30. The Sony is used for another school for a single camera shoot when I solo.

I like the XA25. It's been an excellent buy (got it slightly used). I just wanted you to be aware of the limitation of the BNC output.


Do you add monitors to your cameras? What tripods do you use? Ones with fluid heads?

Since I may need to use HDMI with cameras that have one HDMI output... Will it work using an HDMI splitter with one HDMI cable going from splitter to a monitor mounted on the camera, second HDMI cable from splitter to a HDMI to SDI converter, then SDI cable from converter going into Decklink Duo? Is that too much switching and converting or will that be fine?

Another question... The machine used to run Vmix. I currently have a PC with a Xeon E3-1231 V3, which IIRC is equivalent to the i7 4770, and a GTX 970. I'd need to upgrade the RAM to 32gb and add a 1TB SSD, but if I did would that cut if for 1080p streaming, recording, and replays (I may only use one camera replay to start)? Or do I definitely need to build a new machine? Best I can tell my current machine would match up favorably to the Emerald reference system but not quite to the Ruby due to the CPU? If I could use the current machine I could put the $ into other things.
ElBurrito  
#18 Posted : Saturday, December 2, 2017 4:37:56 PM(UTC)
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NHT wrote:
ElBurrito wrote:
NHT wrote:
On your budget probably cheap Chinese walkies like the Baofeng 888 or Retevis 777 these are cheap and have decent range.

If you're switching and directing you should put your unit on Vox (voice operation) so you can talk hands free.


Both of those have vox capabilities where youd on't have to push a button to talk? I've seen conflicting info.


I have both of these and have set both models up with Vox, they're effectively the same design with a different name.

If you buy some, get the USB TUNING CABLE and download CHIRP to program them.


Do you monitor program audio on the same headset as comms? What's the best way to get both sets of audio into the same headset? Will one of those basic aux audio splitters work?
NHT  
#19 Posted : Saturday, December 2, 2017 4:50:13 PM(UTC)
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ElBurrito wrote:
NHT wrote:
ElBurrito wrote:
NHT wrote:
On your budget probably cheap Chinese walkies like the Baofeng 888 or Retevis 777 these are cheap and have decent range.

If you're switching and directing you should put your unit on Vox (voice operation) so you can talk hands free.


Both of those have vox capabilities where youd on't have to push a button to talk? I've seen conflicting info.


I have both of these and have set both models up with Vox, they're effectively the same design with a different name.

If you buy some, get the USB TUNING CABLE and download CHIRP to program them.


Do you monitor program audio on the same headset as comms? What's the best way to get both sets of audio into the same headset? Will one of those basic aux audio splitters work?


I actually use a much more low tech solution.

I use a ear bud headphones to monitor audio output and then put a comms headset over the top.
jvphobic  
#20 Posted : Saturday, December 2, 2017 5:42:40 PM(UTC)
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I put the comms into the mixer with the monitor output. Then I can control both volumes on the mixer. But it is low tech like NHT.
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