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Eyes.Only  
#1 Posted : Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:41:49 AM(UTC)
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I've been trying to research and learn from the many posts and reference systems but I've become overloaded and could really use some perspective from you guys who are experienced. All I need is a simple system (desktop is fine since space and portability are not factors) that accepts two sources: an SDI input, and a composite input (eventually hdmi)...I need to fade between the two, and stream it (RMTP). That's it...

I had purchased a BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle but found out you can't use the inputs simultaneously so I don't want to run into more surprises, thus I'm asking for some suggestions. I'm assuming a desktop with 2 separate input cards? 1 SDI and 1 maybe that supports analog/hdmi? If I wanted an extra monitor to show the fullscreen output, does that require a 3rd hdmi playback card?

DWAM  
#2 Posted : Thursday, March 30, 2017 4:26:27 AM(UTC)
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Hi and welcome to the forum!

Well it all depends on your budget which you didn't mention. You said "simple" I'll assume it means cheap... ;o)

I suppose you already checked the recommended hardware page on vMix website, right ? Just in case : http://www.vmix.com/prod...x-reference-systems.aspx

The PC should be at least an i5 based CPU with an nVidia GTX graphics card. i7 is better but it could be an upgrade option later on.
2/3 things are important (at least):
- the number of PCI-Express slots and their type. These will determine which capture card you can use
- the number of hard disks or preferably SSDs. For example it's better to have 3 small/medium SSDs than a single big one
- USB3 support, as you might also use USB3 devices for capture

Try to find a motherboard with at least 4 PCI-Express slots (rev 3.0), being preferably x16 or x4. That means don't go for Mini-ATX

For the capture cards, you have several options:
- a single card with multiple inputs like BlackMagic or Magewell etc...
- multiple single input cards
- usb devices

Here again your budget will matter.

One cheap solution could be this:
- 2 PCI-Express Blackmagic Decklink Mini Recorder with SDI/HDMI inputs
- 1 USB dongle able to do HD or SD
That gives you a potential for 3 simultaneous inputs, one being able to ingest old equipments for about $550/600

Quote:
If I wanted an extra monitor to show the fullscreen output, does that require a 3rd hdmi playback card?


Nope the GTX will have at least 3 outputs connectors you can use at the same time. Newer models have 4.
An extra monitor for fullscreen is very important.

I think you can now make your shopping list. If you're not sure, just come back.

Hope this helps
Guillaume
IceStream  
#3 Posted : Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:30:30 AM(UTC)
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@ Eyes.Only

By the sound of it, you have a couple cameras and the objective now is figuring out how to capture them into a computer.
As DWAM suggests, pretty much any i5 or i7 on the market should be able to accommodate you for what you describe, keeping in mind that the "reference systems" are suggested minimum requirements using "current" components for custom builds, many of us still have older systems that operate just fine with vMix for our needs. Before jumping in with both feet on a new build, you may want to "test" things out with what you may already have and decide from there where and how you want to invest.
I would hold on to the BMD Intensity Shuttle for your analog (and future HDMI) single Camera capture device for starters.
For your SDI Camera, you could look into a capture dongle like the BMD Mini Recorder or Magewell XI100DUSB, and as Guillaume suggests, depending on your system's graphic card capabilities and vMix edition will determine your "Fullscreen" output options.
It can be very overwhelming trying to grasp it all at the start, but the important thing to remember is that what you want to do is most likely possible, it's just a matter of figuring out the best way to get there, and you've got lots of people here willing to help you with that.


Ice
zenvideo  
#4 Posted : Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:49:00 PM(UTC)
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Eyes.Only wrote:
I had purchased a BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle but found out you can't use the inputs simultaneously so I don't want to run into more surprises, thus I'm asking for some suggestions. I'm assuming a desktop with 2 separate input cards? 1 SDI and 1 maybe that supports analog/hdmi?

The latter requirement of analog/HDMI is taken care of by the Intensity Shuttle, so you're just looking for a SDI input device, of which the BM Mini Recorder PCIe card is one of the cheapest, and has the option of taking SDI or HDMI (but like most multi-connector cards is only a single channel device). For all its faults, like poor compatibility with some USB3 host chipsets, the Intensity Shuttle is quite a versatile device for the money, having both analogue & HDMI connections, handling SD & HD signals, and being able to act either as an input or an output device (although not both at once).
Eyes.Only  
#5 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 4:40:21 PM(UTC)
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Loving the input, thanks guys. And yes I have gone through the recommended hardware lists thoroughly.

I was looking for the SDI input, not for another camera, but rather the "presentation" PC which has an SDI out. I'm wondering now though if I need to.

If I have an Intel i7-7700k, 16GB DDR4, and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060...could it handle the presentation software as well?

Scenario:
Monitors: #1 runs the presentation GUI, #2 vMix GUI, #3 Auditorium screens playing presentation, #4 Info monitor for stage (timer, msg, etc),#5 Fullscreen preview of output for live stream,
Inputs: #1 Camera via BM Intensity Pro card (HDMI/Analog), #2 Display capture of 3rd display
Streams: #1 RTMP to cloud server, #2 RTSP for local remote rooms (lower latency)

If the streams were just 720p, could the one system handle it? Or is it a bad idea to combine the presentation system with the vMix system?

Quote:
- the number of hard disks or preferably SSDs. For example it's better to have 3 small/medium SSDs than a single big one


So if I had a prebuilt that only has 1x M.2 512GB SSD, that wouldn't be as good? (Not recording video)

Heh...would it be a terrible idea to use a prebuilt? (Alienware Aurora R6) Cheap is awesome, but time is valuable too...I'm one of those guys with too many projects. :(
DWAM  
#6 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 4:50:46 PM(UTC)
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What is "presentation" PC for you? And presentation GUI? Something like Powerpoint?
Eyes.Only  
#7 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 5:32:02 PM(UTC)
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That would make a difference wouldn't it! Sorry about that. It depends on the media but many times it will be VLC based or similar player with MP4 video.
DWAM  
#8 Posted : Saturday, April 1, 2017 5:42:59 AM(UTC)
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Hi

very interesting use case! When I look at the todo list I think you slightly under-estimated your needs, not really in terms of power but rather in terms of ease of use and independance for each task.

First I'm gonna answer the easy questions and try to express what I would do based on my experience of such workflows. This won't be the absolute and unique "truth" about it, there are always alternatives, simply what I would do if I had to deal with this project.

I am missing important information:
- what type are the auditorium screens? TV sets? LED wall? Beamer? Because you said "screens", I assume you're talking of multiple big screens TV. This has to be confirmed.
- local remote rooms? TV sets? computers? Do you have a decent ethernet network?

Quote:
I was looking for the SDI input, not for another camera, but rather the "presentation" PC which has an SDI out. I'm wondering now though if I need to.

I guess not. NDI is the best way to go for this

Quote:
If I have an Intel i7-7700k, 16GB DDR4, and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060...could it handle the presentation software as well?

Potentially yes, but it's not a good idea anyway

Quote:
So if I had a prebuilt that only has 1x M.2 512GB SSD, that wouldn't be as good? (Not recording video)

It could work but I wouldn't do that anyway. I'd go for a 128 or 256GB for system and a 512GB SSD. Recording is important. Streaming might go wrong, you could be asked for a recording in order to do post-production. It's better to be able to record.

Quote:
would it be a terrible idea to use a prebuilt?

As long as it sticks to hardware requirements, no. I use home-made and prebuilt PCs for vMix.

Ok, now my proposal!

Considering your project needs, I would go for a 3 computer setup (a 2 powerful computer setup is certainly possible but it depends on your constraints and context and things have to be confirmed first):
#1 one powerful i7 for vMix (you said you already have this one)
#2 a decent laptop like i5 or better for presentations
#3 another laptop or desktop for multiple use. I'll explain this later

I think you also need vMix 4K or Pro to take advantage of EXTERNAL2 (virtual or physical) output.

Before I explain further, please answer the questions I asked above and tell us about your network infrastructure in the auditorium. Each detail is very important. Also indicate distance between the control room and the stage.

Thanks
Guillaume
Eyes.Only  
#9 Posted : Saturday, April 1, 2017 1:13:17 PM(UTC)
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DWAM wrote:
I think you slightly under-estimated your needs


I think it grew as I thought about it haha. My mind also started to think about 2 different venues and I need to limit myself to the specifics of one at a time. I'll bring in a second venue and system design after this one. The other is more of a rack mount with the remote rooms being TVs.

Quote:
what type are the auditorium screens?


Multiple LED TVs running on an SDI system.

Quote:
local remote rooms? Do you have a decent ethernet network?


Ethernet is a gigabit network. Right now I'm using a Teradek Cube to send one RTMP stream for cloud viewing and one RTSP stream for the remotes (1 or 2 people outside or other areas who can watch/monitor wirelessly via a tablet or smartphone using Teradek viewer). I can keep using that device since its working fine but I would rather simplify how many devices are being used. But if I were to leave that, I could eliminate the encoding strain on the vMix computer and vMix could always serve as a streaming backup. I like backups...

I'm not even sure what I would use to view the local stream if I did have vMix running the RTSP. Since they're using the tablet or smartphone it would have be to be an easy viewer...VLC maybe? The teradek viewer is around a 2-3 second latency but it works. When a TV is available sometimes I connect a RaspberryPi running OMXPlayer as a cheap plug and play option. It's a low resolution feed most of the time since it's just a few viewers and a low priority...plus wireless. (bleh)

[Edit] JUST realized vMix doesn't stream RTSP. So all of those points are moot. Are there any other ways of viewing the vMix output locally with low latency wirelessly? I know that question sends shivers down the spine...its a hard question to even ask.

Eyes.Only  
#10 Posted : Sunday, April 9, 2017 7:09:56 PM(UTC)
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So taking into account the suggestions, I ordered up the components instead of doing a prebuilt. Based off the Sample System specs I ordered the Gigabyte GAZ270X motherboard, i7-7700k, and the GeForce GTX 1060 vid. I'm also going to try using a Blackmagic Intensity PCIe card with the breakout cable instead of the Shuttle.

I'm going to test the loads and see how it handles...I may keep the second system as the presentation system and use NDI to send it since that does seem to work well.
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