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All NDI sources - capture card still needed?
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dionv  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2017 6:41:53 PM(UTC)
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I've poked around the forums, but I'm not quite sure about this one:

If I setup vMix to use all NDI inputs, would a capture card still be needed?

Looking to mix 3 cameras (ideally 4K) to be recorded in two separate output streams: 1 for DVD, and 1 native recording (Cineform?) for archiving/editing.(The native out put might just go out via HDMI to an existing BMD HyperDeck).

Fairly basic setup with an opening title, switching between the cameras for about an hour, and a closing title.

Thanks in advance.

Dion
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DWAM  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2017 7:03:31 PM(UTC)
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I'll simply answer the main question with another question: how could you have your cams signals become NDI sources without a capture card ?
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dionv  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2017 7:26:33 PM(UTC)
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DWAM wrote:
I'll simply answer the main question with another question: how could you have your cams signals become NDI sources without a capture card ?


Panasonic has at least three PTZ cameras that are NDI-capable, the newest is a 4K unit that appears to have NDI built right in, from initial reading. So, theoretically, I should be able to bring their signals in via vMix's NDI support.

Dion
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SportsNetUSA.net  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2017 10:35:41 PM(UTC)
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NDI capable and NDI compatible would be different. I don't believe Panasonics are "plug-n-play" NDI sources on your network. They have to be brought in as RTSP based input sources (or NewTek NDI ConnectPro). The 4K AW-UE70 has USB so it can be used as a webcam, but not at 4K.

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pizazz  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2017 10:39:18 PM(UTC)
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The panasonic cameras do not have NDI built in at all. You need a $350 plugin that takes the h264 streaming out of the Panasonic cams and converts it into NDI. Great stuff but you need to know the limitations. The multiple camera'S output will not be sync'd. The output will not be 4K either. There are no Panasonic cameras that stream 4K. 720p would be no problem.

The software plugin runs on a dedicated separate PC can convert multiple cameras at once from what I understand.
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dionv  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2017 10:59:28 PM(UTC)
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SportsNetUSA.net wrote:
NDI capable and NDI compatible would be different. I don't believe Panasonics are "plug-n-play" NDI sources on your network. They have to be brought in as RTSP based input sources (or NewTek NDI ConnectPro). The 4K AW-UE70 has USB so it can be used as a webcam, but not at 4K.



From the manual, it *looks* like it can do 4K @ 30p across the network, if I'm reading it correctlly. So with AutoLink or ConnectPro, maybe it would work?

The Vaddio RoboSHOT 20 will do 4K, but only through HDMI, apparently.

Unfortunately, I do not have an in with anyone to be able to test any of this. And at $5k a pop, it's not something one can say "Let's buy them, and if they don't work, we'll just take them back."

Dion

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SportsNetUSA.net  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2017 1:24:25 AM(UTC)
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You may want to take a look at what is of greater importance to your project. Is it shooting in 4K or using PTZ cameras for a small crew/one man operation?
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Digitalson  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2017 2:58:33 AM(UTC)
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Newtek does make ndi in and out hardware units ....4 sdhd in and gigabit network ports and other with out's ,4 per box
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DWAM  
#9 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2017 5:28:33 AM(UTC)
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@Digitalson: Newtek NDI input devices are basically a dedicated PC with a "capture card" and a software converter. Trying to avoid the basic need of a $1000 capture card for vMix by such a device costing $6000 is a strange solution (from my wallet's POV)
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doggy  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2017 5:43:40 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
If I setup vMix to use all NDI inputs, would a capture card still be needed?


I would imagine NOT answering this particular part of the post

Quote:
I'll simply answer the main question with another question: how could you have your cams signals become NDI sources without a capture card ?


ignoring the camera question , I can envision a situation where one receives NDI feeds, the camera issue would then be the feeder's issue ;-)

if Bird-dog's idea ever comes out would this be considered a capture card as we know it ?
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DWAM  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2017 6:45:07 AM(UTC)
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doggy wrote:

if Bird-dog's idea ever comes out would this be considered a capture card as we know it ?


Let's call it a capture interface if you prefer, but in the end is this really different from an AJA Io 4K based on Thunderbolt technology? Or a USB3 Magewell device? They are all alternative solutions to convert video signals so that we can use them in workflows.

As long as we don't have native NDI cameras (which implies an embedded signal processing within the camera to provide it to an output plug) we'll still need some sort of capture cards (inputs) and software or hardware convertion and finally outputs (internal or external).

And may this be the "feeder's issue" as you say, someone has to do it, this is no magic.

The only solutions I can think of not to use capture cards is to use RTSP or USB webcam feeds, which are not comparable in terms of signal quality imho.
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dionv  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2017 3:58:14 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for your input everyone. It looks like the basic question's answer is that capture cards in the vMix machine are not necessarily required to process incoming video.

As I research this and spec things out, I want to be sure that money is spent wisely as we upgrade and try to (moderately) future-proof.

As things stand right now, both 4K PTZ options that I've seen will only output the 4K signal via HDMI, so it looks like I'll have to look at some sort of capture device, or skip vMix altogether and go with a BMD 4K Production Studio, or a TriCaster. I'm not really set on any particular interface yet, though. (Maybe CES or NAB will have some new goodies this year that will help.)

Still gonna keep poking away at vMix, though. The local TV station I volunteer with has a vMix GO, so the experience will be useful on their productions.

Thanks,

Dion
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