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kjones9999  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:01:34 AM(UTC)
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Hi Kane-- Not sure of the cisco number and we have 10 of them of all different varieties that have been in place for 4 years. They work great for streaming to the internet but since we are using NDI everything goes on the radio link and is causing some issues.

Here is a diagram of our setup at any given pressbox:

https://drive.google.com...TU9BYjg/view?usp=sharing
AElli  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2016 4:24:06 PM(UTC)
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Replace your dumb router with a smart one. Or place a 1gb switch behind it. Connect both PCs to the switch, and the switch to the dump router.

The NDI packets will travel locally between the switch and only your video stream will pass out over the wireless link.

You might have to manually configure the IP addresses but thats not difficult.

A.
desmar  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2016 4:49:47 PM(UTC)
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His problem is it may not be the router but most likely it's the Cisco Radio,
NDI needs more bandwith and as he is streaming and sending an NDI via the Cisco Radio.
They need Gigabit Wifi Radio similar to my earlier post #20 to accomplish what he wants to do..

I had the same issue with 2 TP-Link CPE510.. they where not fast enough...

Video Showing TP-Link CPE510
kane  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2016 8:22:54 PM(UTC)
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While your certainly need the bandwidth for NDI to operate correctly. Even the fastest wireless can still be an issue because it is a very bursty and subject to interference, both in just noise in the environment but also with all other WiFi clients. Only one client can really be 'talking' to the access point at a time, so if you have lots of WiFi equipment all of that bandwidth is shared, unlike wired where each clients get their own 1GB of bandwidth to/from the switch. Not saying that you can't make this work, but it can be problematic.

Putting a switch behind the Cisco in the pressbox should solve this issue, NDI traffic would then be isolated onto the switch and then only things that need to go over the wireless link would do so. I use this very setup at home for my equipment. All of my demo equipment is downstairs (a TriCaster, 3PLAY, TalkShow, VizRT, NDI apps, etc) and my internet router is upstairs. I haven't run a wired line between the two locations, so I got a WiFi bridge, then put a 1GB switch behind it. All of my NDI gear is on the 1GB switch which allows them all to talk between each other at full 1GB speed and when I go out over the internet only that traffic goes via wireless to the upstairs internet router. I'm even using a unmanaged no-name Ethernet switch to make this work, you could go get a cheap TPLink 5 port 1GB switch and have this all working in no time.

Kane Peterson
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mjgraves  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 12:00:18 PM(UTC)
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In my work I often have to advise people to avoid Wi-Fi. It's just not reliable for mission critical streaming media.

Where it's not practical to pull an Ethernet line we sometimes recommend a Ethernet-Over-Powerline kit. This can be a good way to provide a reliable link from the production network to the main house router or switch. There are some that deliver Gigabit performance.

I've used the lesser AV500 model that delivers 500 mbps. They're adequate for the kind of SIP/VoIP activity I deal with routinely.

One word of warning about such devices, they do add a little latency. My router's buffer bloat rating is very good. If I use the AV500 EOP kit it's a bit degraded. This sort of thing mostly impacts real-time bidirectional communications, like video conferencing & telephony.
AElli  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 4:34:55 PM(UTC)
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desmar wrote:
His problem is it may not be the router but most likely it's the Cisco Radio,
NDI needs more bandwith and as he is streaming and sending an NDI via the Cisco Radio.
They need Gigabit Wifi Radio similar to my earlier post #20 to accomplish what he wants to do..

I had the same issue with 2 TP-Link CPE510.. they where not fast enough...

Video Showing TP-Link CPE510


So is the intent to push NDI out over the rf link.

Looking at the supplied diagram it looks to me like the NDI packets are only flowing between the two PC's. With only the final video streaming out over the radio link.

Maybe the OP can comment on this, as if the NDI connection is locally feeding graphics into the Vmix PC then they only need a switch to connect between the two PC's and the RF link.

A.

Mathijs  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:12:35 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
this device was traveling through the radio to the main building and then back across the radio to the vmix machine


It didn't travel back and forth, NDI uses multicast, so it is replicated to all ports on the network.
If you can disable multicast or IGMP on the radio, NDI would not take bandwidth of your wireless connection.
I think disabling IGMP within the windows firewall for a specific subnet, will also block it on the NIC you do not want it to be on.
I can think up lots of cases where multiple nic's would be favorable.
kane  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 11:58:20 PM(UTC)
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NDI only uses multicast for the discovery phase which is low bandwidth. When two devices are transferring video/audio data, unicast transmission is used.

Kane Peterson
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thanks 1 user thanked kane for this useful post.
ask on 8/25/2016(UTC)
Mathijs  
#29 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2016 4:37:45 AM(UTC)
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Ok, but why would there be data on that wireless connection if that is the case?
kane  
#30 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:34:14 AM(UTC)
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I don't know. Without exact models of the equipment being used and how it is configured it would be impossible to say. All I could do is make guesses. Perhaps the 'dumb router' in this Cisco wireless unit is only 100mb? In that case, it wouldn't be sending the data over the wireless link, but it would still be maxing out the bandwidth of the Ethernet ports on the unit which might make it look like its using up all of the bandwidth.

Kane Peterson
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kane  
#31 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:40:37 AM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:

Where it's not practical to pull an Ethernet line we sometimes recommend a Ethernet-Over-Powerline kit. This can be a good way to provide a reliable link from the production network to the main house router or switch. There are some that deliver Gigabit performance.

I've used the lesser AV500 model that delivers 500 mbps. They're adequate for the kind of SIP/VoIP activity I deal with routinely.

One word of warning about such devices, they do add a little latency. My router's buffer bloat rating is very good. If I use the AV500 EOP kit it's a bit degraded. This sort of thing mostly impacts real-time bidirectional communications, like video conferencing & telephony.


How much latency does this add? Is it really that noticeable? Would a Skype call still be acceptable? I've not looked at Powerline solutions for a while, but checking them out again after reading your post, they appear to have units offering pretty high speed. I think this might be a good solution instead of my upstairs to downstairs wireless link.

Kane Peterson
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Len56  
#32 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:11:08 AM(UTC)
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Yes I agree with Kane I am using a Netgear 1GB Ethernet power line, my Virgin Media router is in my living room and my office is upstairs I have run a speed test from my PC in my office and I am getting 130mbps download and 12.40mbps upload speeds, I also have run a speed test from my media centre which is in my living room and connected directly to the router via Ethernet and that gives me the same 130mbps download and 12.40mbps upload speeds.

So I think that is the way to go.
AElli  
#33 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2016 4:44:48 PM(UTC)
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" I also have run a speed test from my media centre which is in my living room and connected directly to the router via Ethernet and that gives me the same 130mbps download and 12.40mbps upload speeds "

I would expect all your connected devices to show the same results as the speed test is on your external connection, not on your home network. Measuring from your router out to the test server which theoretically would not change too rapidly.
A.
mjgraves  
#34 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:07:50 PM(UTC)
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kane wrote:

How much latency does this add? Is it really that noticeable? Would a Skype call still be acceptable? I've not looked at Powerline solutions for a while, but checking them out again after reading your post, they appear to have units offering pretty high speed. I think this might be a good solution instead of my upstairs to downstairs wireless link.


The latency is minimal, no more than another couple of hops across routers, which is really what they are.

The bigger potential issue is buffer bloat. Like any router they buffer traffic.

Broadband reports speed test include a buffer bloat measurement. My Comcast business class service gets A+ when I connect via ethernet. When I use the ethernet-over-power kit is drops to a C, purely on the basis of buffering.

When excessive buffer bloat impacts real-time, bi-directional communication, like phone calls or video conference links. It's less worrisome with respect to streaming video.
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