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guztavo  
#1 Posted : Monday, June 6, 2016 8:20:28 PM(UTC)
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Hi!
I'm writing because i want to know your experience with H.264 sources on vMix.
Actually i'm working over two firewire cards (very cheap) but on SD resolutions. I'm thinking to moving on to a 1080p 60fps system but i need to find the best setup to do best my work.
I work with basketball games (you can see it here:
), with two cameras, both next to the PC (because of the firewire limitation), and if i make an upgrade, i want to have the option of move arround the stadium, something that cannot be done with HDMI (the largest lead has 15m), so i have to think on SDI capture cards (but i dont have SDI cameras), or H.264 encoders like this one: http://www.aliexpress.co...010108.1000014.6.uSr1T0, that works over ethernet or wifi LAN networks.
What do you think? CPU usage?
Thanks in advance.

Gustavo - Argentina
SportsNetUSA.net  
#2 Posted : Monday, June 6, 2016 9:55:58 PM(UTC)
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Two other options to consider other than the H.264 wifi HDMI Video Encoder. I assume you are using cameras that have both Firewire and HDMI outputs.

You could still get SDI capture cards but also buy two HDMI to SDI converters such as the AJA HA5. That would move you away from HDMI cabling to more reliable BNC connectors found on HD/SDI, and continue to use your current cameras.

Or you could use one of your current cameras with an HDMI over CAT5/6 extender. KanexPro has HDBaseT extenders, 4K UHD HDBaseT 70 meter or 100 meter extenders that work well. There are other brands also that will do the job. An extender would allow you to have one of your cameras much farther away from your control point.

As with every upgrade, it depends how much money you can spend.
guztavo  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:32:06 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for your answer!

The real problem here is the budget.
So it's more expensive 1 SDI capture card with a HDMI/SDI conversor, than a H.264 HDMI encoder.
The point, it's, how this kind of devices work with vMix.
Thanks!
SportsNetUSA.net  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 1:03:12 AM(UTC)
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I watched part of your basketball game. It looked good. What model cameras are you using?
Siroki  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 3:15:58 AM(UTC)
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I am working with BMD Intensity Pro and MiniRecorder, both cards are very good, for that price great, they are not expensive, you can see video of basketball game we made with two cameras. One with HD/SDI and another with HDMI connection:



If you don't need camera on the field you can go with HDMI, we work on that way, one camera near another and one is a big plan, and another is zoom. It points to judges, players that score, fans etc

In your case I think it's bad that you are working SD and with firewire if you have HD or Full HD option with HDMI

best regards
Marko
pm  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 9:53:06 AM(UTC)
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I'm using HDMI H264 encoders, similar devices like in your proposal, to ingest cameras into a laptop. Not via wifi, by cable. Switch infrastructure is 1GBit.

Example (highlight reel from the game, full game is not public available on Youtube because of rights):


Three cameras were used (one Canon XA35 and two GoPro Hero 3) and HDMI is converted to RTSP streams. Latency is about 200-300ms. CPU load depends on the bitrate and is between 8% to 15% per stream (...added later by me...). See this topic for more information: http://forums.vmix.com/d....aspx?g=posts&t=6172

Hope this information helps.

Regards,
Patrick
Siroki  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 10:02:11 AM(UTC)
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What does this do:
http://www.aliexpress.co...0010108.1000014.6.uSr1T0

??

Can someone explain? You switch into this hdmi cable from camera and another from this to capture card? Or?
What does Lan input means? Can you insert HDMI output from camera into this and from this with LAN cable to PC?
pm  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:30:44 AM(UTC)
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You connect the camera with a HDMI cable to the encoder. At the same time, the encoder is connected to your common ip network (where your vMix PC is). Also network switches inside the network are allowed. The encoder transcodes the camera signal into a RTSP h264 stream. This RTSP stream can be used as input in vMix. No capture card required for this setup.
guztavo  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:50:15 AM(UTC)
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Hi!

Thanks to all for your answers!

SportsNetUSA.net: I'm working with a Panasonic NV-GS500 as principal and a Panasonic NV-GS330 as secondary camera. Both cameras work only SD PAL: 720 x 576 24fps. They are connected to the vMix PC throught two PCI firewire cards like this: http://articulo.mercadol...-31-noganet-kw-1582-_JM. Graphics were bought on videohive.com by my customer.

Siroki: I'm working with cameras that dont allow working on HD, they only work on SD resolutions.

I'm thinking all options. I.E., if i want to work with another sport than basketball, i will need other kind of infraestructure.
If i want to stream a live football game i will probably need two more cameras in the field (and they can't be connected via HDMI), and one or two next to me in the middle, so, i think in the scalability. If now i buy a Mini recorder, wich is a very good option, in the future i cant keep buying this cards because i have a short number of PCI slots.
I think the scalability of H.264 encoders, but i'm not pretty sure.

8 to 15% its CPU usage for each input?
In the other hand, vMix give you the option of replay this kind of inputs? In my old version of vMix i cant replay DVDs.

Dreaming, i imagine all my vMix system running from my car, like a TV broadcast mobile studio, so i want to buy things thinking in that future.

Thanks again for your help!
AElli  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 2:43:34 PM(UTC)
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If your concern is for the load placed on the Vmix PC...
Most encoders h264 output can be decoded by VLC. As VLC has a plugin available to make it NDI compatible...

Maybe Run VLC on a second PC / laptop and send its output to Vmix via NDI.

I'd also suggest buying a couple high gain antennas to replace the STD. ones for better WiFi coverage.

A.
Mathijs  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 5:11:21 PM(UTC)
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Just go with the SDI solution. You can try to get it all cheaper, but in the end you will spend more. Save a little bit more money and get the right gear.
AElli  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 6:29:58 PM(UTC)
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SDI would be the cheapest and most reliable method if your ok being retained to a 250ft cable, which remember you'll have tail along behind if on the move, unless you have a friend or colleague to work "cable caddy"

If the moneys there and within your budget, and you really want to do this untethered over RF you might consider a teradec bolt. Models are priced on coverage 300 --> 2000ft. Or by using 3/4g look into the teradec bond.

The new gen. models now output over USB (as well as SDI/HDMI) so you can plug directly in via USB3 and capture as a Vmix feed.

Theres cheaper.. the paralinx arrow or the Nyrius ARIES Pro, you don't get the distance or the build / production quality, but as mathijs wrote above ..... Choose the right solution and pay once.

A.
guztavo  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 8, 2016 12:33:50 PM(UTC)
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Thanks to all for your answers!

Does anyone tested the device that AElli suggested?
Nyrius ARIES Pro

I think a combination of both systems will be a good configuration, but i still have some doubts. An ATEM TV Studio with 6 inputs cost the same than a Blackmagic QUAD. I know they are different applications, but when i have to upgrade my PC, buy a Blackmagic card, and a vMix license.. well...
I will keep looking for a good setup with a limited budget. I will post soon news.
Thanks to all!
Mathijs  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, June 8, 2016 6:15:24 PM(UTC)
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A BMD TVS is cheaper, yes. But not the same at all. If you want to record you will need a recorder, if you want to stream you will need a encoder, if you want playout, you need a playout system, you want CG, you need a CG system.
If you buy/build all that you will spend more money than the vMix setup, and you have to get it all connected together to get a nice workflow. Also, playout/cg will take inputs. GC with alpha channel will take 2 inputs. So with playout and CG, you will have 3 inputs left.
With a BMD TVS you can mix sources and that's it. Everything needs to be in the same format.

vMix will blow it away when it comes to possibilities, ease to work with, etc.
I know that for sure, as I came from an ATEM 1ME setup to vMix. I have lots of spare converters, scalers and other problem solvers left from that, which can be handy now, but which I would have not bought if I would have gone with vMix straight away.
In my ATEM rig I had 3 PC's, and building a show was a lot of work. If clients would change things last minute, it gave me headaches, now I just get around something like that within a minute, make them happy and be happy about it myself.

You can build everything to be able to grow with you. Get a good mainboard with a i5/i7 processor that has the same IGP as the vMix U, together with the decklink quad 2.
You can get a vMix HD basic license for 60 bucks. and for that you would have a 3 camera system with scoreboard.
You do a few jobs and upgrade that to a vMix HD license.
You can also skip that, get the vmix free 60 day trial and use those 60 days to generate money to get yourself the HD license.
You can use all of your SDI inputs for camera's, as everything else can be done within vMix itself.
If you want to expand beyond the capabilities of the system, you can buy a nice Geforce 1070 and even a second decklink quad 2 after that.
You want more from vMix, you can upgrade it to 4K or PRO after that.
When on a budget, don't only look at cheap and 'will get the job done for now'. It's best to spend your money smart by looking at the complete picture. Where are you now and where do you want to be in the future.
Siroki  
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 9, 2016 3:38:40 AM(UTC)
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Mathijs wrote:
A BMD TVS is cheaper, yes. But not the same at all. If you want to record you will need a recorder, if you want to stream you will need a encoder, if you want playout, you need a playout system, you want CG, you need a CG system.
If you buy/build all that you will spend more money than the vMix setup, and you have to get it all connected together to get a nice workflow. Also, playout/cg will take inputs. GC with alpha channel will take 2 inputs. So with playout and CG, you will have 3 inputs left.
With a BMD TVS you can mix sources and that's it. Everything needs to be in the same format.

vMix will blow it away when it comes to possibilities, ease to work with, etc.
I know that for sure, as I came from an ATEM 1ME setup to vMix. I have lots of spare converters, scalers and other problem solvers left from that, which can be handy now, but which I would have not bought if I would have gone with vMix straight away.
In my ATEM rig I had 3 PC's, and building a show was a lot of work. If clients would change things last minute, it gave me headaches, now I just get around something like that within a minute, make them happy and be happy about it myself.

You can build everything to be able to grow with you. Get a good mainboard with a i5/i7 processor that has the same IGP as the vMix U, together with the decklink quad 2.
You can get a vMix HD basic license for 60 bucks. and for that you would have a 3 camera system with scoreboard.
You do a few jobs and upgrade that to a vMix HD license.
You can also skip that, get the vmix free 60 day trial and use those 60 days to generate money to get yourself the HD license.
You can use all of your SDI inputs for camera's, as everything else can be done within vMix itself.
If you want to expand beyond the capabilities of the system, you can buy a nice Geforce 1070 and even a second decklink quad 2 after that.
You want more from vMix, you can upgrade it to 4K or PRO after that.
When on a budget, don't only look at cheap and 'will get the job done for now'. It's best to spend your money smart by looking at the complete picture. Where are you now and where do you want to be in the future.


So you suggest this:
http://www.vmix.com/products/vmix-go.aspx
Mathijs  
#16 Posted : Thursday, June 9, 2016 8:03:42 AM(UTC)
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No, read again. I suggest building a system that can be upgraded with time.
guztavo  
#17 Posted : Thursday, June 9, 2016 9:04:12 AM(UTC)
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Mathijs, thanks for your answer.
I get your point, and i agree with you in all the suggested process.
May be i'm scared about the budget because streaming (a good streaming production) it's actually a business that it's dificult to sell.
I mean, it requires a lot of work (and money) like a TV profesional broadcast, with a lot of equipment and people, to get a good product, but the sponsors prefer to pay advertisment on TV more than on streaming productions (at least in my experience in Argentina at this moment). So, thats why i'm thinking on less inversion now and scalability for the future. In fact, that was the point of this post, thinking in money and scalability.
Siroki  
#18 Posted : Thursday, June 9, 2016 9:52:42 AM(UTC)
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Mathijs wrote:
No, read again. I suggest building a system that can be upgraded with time.


OK
I agree
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