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garethb  
#1 Posted : Friday, March 25, 2016 6:05:26 AM(UTC)
garethb

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Hello to all of you,

Please help !!

I'm having real difficultly deciding on going down the route of Vmix with custom made PC using windows 7 or 8 or Hardware route with Blackmagic or Datavideo.

I will be using the system for conferences and other live events, live streaming, recording high res, using sony EX1s x4 (SDI), plus maybe go pros,(more consumer cameras), etc also projection screens, and powerpoint and import of video media mainly quicktime as editing on Mac FCPX.

It could be quite a large workload....will the PC with Vmix handle the workload, very concerned with windows (crashes) as from past computerPC( not Mac) experience had nothing but trouble.

I realise Blackmagic can't do all the singing and dancing but reliability and performance is top of the list.

Would be great to hear any first hand professional user experience, ideally lots of gigs, using either product and any recommendations.

Many thanks in advance :)
garethb  
#2 Posted : Friday, March 25, 2016 3:04:04 PM(UTC)
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Anyone used Vmix software with PC in a professional high use working environment ?
garethb  
#3 Posted : Friday, March 25, 2016 3:16:28 PM(UTC)
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Ideally need to know if vMix is capable of ingesting 6 HD-SDI cameras 1080/50i, ISO and Instant Replay 4 inputs, stream to livestream (HD), run a multiview monitor and preview monitor, connect to a laptop for media, animation, etc, content to another laptop for Power Point presentation and feed a projector and an external recorder prores 422 clean ? Not asking for much ..lol
Really need to know the capability (real life) before spending ££££ on the vmix Go or custom computer. Guys at Vmix can you please provide a full on professional shoot presentation not just a few HDMI consumers cameras !!
IceStream  
#4 Posted : Friday, March 25, 2016 7:23:24 PM(UTC)
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@ garethb

Although this is a 'Forum' of the "converted" and you might be hard pressed to find anyone offering a negative review of vMix, the "proof is in the pudding" as they say.
I'm not sure what you've researched or what you've tried but vMix has certainly proven itself to be a cost effective solution for many users when comparing it to what else is available in the market.
I would refer you to richardgatarski (who does similar work to what you reference) and Cpilcher (who migrated from ATEM to vMix) as two users that come to mind that would be excellent resources to answer some of your questions.
If you are coming from a Mac background and have had bad experiences with PC's, I would recommend staying away from lower end PC's and components and go with what is as good as or better than Apple ($ for $) in a high end workstation build (the vMix Go likely falls into that category).
I think vMix has turned a lot of heads at the annual NAB Show each year, and this year is no exception as it looks to power the Teradek booth again with vMix Go as well as stream live daily from their own booth, so if you can wait another month or so before committing, that might be a good place to see vMix Live in action. It might also give you some time to 'Play' with the Trial version in some capacity (using Bootcamp on a Mac maybe) to get a feel for what may or may not be possible for you.

I hope that helps some, I know it's not an easy decision when having to invest hard earned money on this stuff, but I think you'll find this community and the vMix developers to be second to none.


Ice
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garethb on 3/26/2016(UTC)
garethb  
#5 Posted : Friday, March 25, 2016 7:37:36 PM(UTC)
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Really appreciate you getting back to me, good advice and will try out using bootcamp. Not looking for negative review..hopefully positive to relay my fears of a system crash during a live streaming event.

Not seen any reviews/demos putting the Vmix to full task with full HD and lots of camera, etc, etc. I would have thought if the team at Vmix really want to sell to a professional market they need to show it can work within that environment. Come on guys at Vmix show us a real full production demo, showing CPU, lots of professional HD/SDI cameras, media and high res streaming all working without any problems.
JimJacobs  
#6 Posted : Friday, March 25, 2016 10:31:30 PM(UTC)
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I can vouch for VMix in a professional environment. I've sold all my NewTek Tricaster and 3Play gear to convert all our production systems to VMix based units. We done over 50 multi hour sporting events with 3 Sony pro cameras coming in on SDI to a AJA kono 4 card. Play commercials during breaks, plus graphics, recording a h2.64 copy for YouTube and streaming in HD to our platform on DaCast. Using a Dell Alienware PC with Invidia graphics card, SSD drives for speed and plenty of RAM. Not a single crash....ever. No lag, no sync issues. It just works. If you have more questions, feel free to contact me. Like Ice said...the key is a PC with plenty of umph in the box.
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garethb on 3/26/2016(UTC)
garethb  
#7 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 4:31:03 AM(UTC)
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Cheers Jim...just the reply I was hoping for :)
richardgatarski  
#8 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 4:47:34 AM(UTC)
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garethb,
I would say yes, vMix should be able to do what you need. But in vMix 16 you only have two Fullscreen outputs which is not enough for monitoring Preview, Multiview, AND sending to a projector. (The External outputs have too much latency). But with upcoming vMix 17's NDI support (which so far looks very good) you have virtually no limitation for minimal latency outputs. Meaning, just add another PC that routes to its graphic card outputs Inputs/Outputs from your main vMix switcher.

Your direct question/demand to the vMix team seems unfair to me. vMix offer a set of tools, not full blown turn key systems that you ask for. Perhaps you should find a retailer that can help you out. But I emphatize with your concern. Been there (chancing on h/w investment), not knowing if it will work. So far it has - for me at least. Hint, max out on CPU power, motherboard, Graphics card, and SSD disks.

Regarding Windows' stability. We've had maybe a couple of blue screens over the years during live productions. A few more during rigorous testing, trimming, and experimantation sessions. Operator error and conference attendands unplugging our power has been more common. Actually, we feel pretty safe when changing vMix presets/settings (eg adding an Input, adding a capture card, streaming resolution, etc) during live production. The only thing that currently worries me is Microsoft's aggresive attempts to force upgrade to Windows 10. We are currently staying at 8.1 awaiting all drivers to be bug free. Furthermore, I am afraid that Win10 might decide to update/restart in the middle of a live production.

Good luck, and may the Force be with you :)
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garethb on 3/26/2016(UTC)
garethb  
#9 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 5:27:45 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for your in-depth reply really helps...Windows 10 is also one of my biggest concerns..considering 7 or 8, depending on graphics card. To reduce latency could I run SDI out then a converter to projector ? sorry little confused as to "add another PC that routes to its graphic card outputs Inputs/Outputs from your main vMix switcher." As direct inputs/outputs will be Decklink Quadcard 2 x8 SDI
richardgatarski  
#10 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 6:27:02 AM(UTC)
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sorry, I run a production company - not teaching/training vMix ;)
There's a lot to learn and understand, after all vMix is behind the simple surface a very complex and capable tool.
I suggest you download and try, reading the help, and so forth...

Basically the so called "External outputs", eg used for Decklink output, have too much latency. Instead lowest possible output is obtained using the "Fullscreen outputs", ie the graphics card/s outputs (VGA/DVI/HDMI/Displayport). Still, depending how pecky you are, you will find it difficult to get a "perfect" lip sync for IMAG.

Watch the two most recent vMix Fun Time live show on their YouTube channel to get a grip on NDI. vMix 4K/Pro on a second PC can over NDI take for example the MultiView from Your production PC as an Input, and then output that to a monitor (ie attached to the second PC). And also, take the Preview from the production PC and put it on a second monitor, etc.
r@wisla  
#11 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 6:42:42 AM(UTC)
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Until version 17 vMix could output it inputs / multiview / preview / program in two different ways:

Fullscreen option - via graphic card, by adding additional monitor. It's now reduced to 2 different fullscreens. The latency is the smallest there.

External outputs - via output card, like Blackmagic monitor, Quad (Quad 2) etc... There is a latency between vMix and what this output shows. This is why some of us don't like to use it feeding projectors or large screens (for example, during concert, people see the latency looking at the stage and the screen). For me the latency is not that big, but some of us consider it unacceptable.

vMix 17 introduced implementation of Newtek's new technology called NDI. It gives us possibility of sending video signal FROM vMix via IP = via local network. It means you can have a vMix PC connected to 1gbps network and if you attach another PC to it, and that PC has a right software (vMix or some client made by Newtek or other 3rd party company) - you can watch multiview, preview, program or other vMix input there.

garethb wrote:
To reduce latency could I run SDI out then a converter to projector ?


You can't reduce latency by ADDING anything to the video chain. Every device adds a latency. Sometimes the latency is that tiny, that You will not notice it, but there is no way any device turns the video signal back in time :)

richardgatarski wrote:
Your direct question/demand to the vMix team seems unfair to me. vMix offer a set of tools, not full blown turn key systems that you ask for.

I think its very fair to expect good broadcast examples from vMix Go Team :)
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garethb on 3/27/2016(UTC)
garethb  
#12 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 7:26:06 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for your help guys...just trying to get my head around it all before investing...if vMix did show broadcast examples I do think they would sell more kit win/win situation...version17 seems the way to go as concerned about the latency issue, also will be wanting to go direct from individual cameras to direct feed (not program) to large screen...more research to see if this is possible !!
mjgraves  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:38:11 AM(UTC)
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r@wisla wrote:
Until version 17 vMix could output it inputs / multiview / preview / program in two different ways:

Fullscreen option - via graphic card, by adding additional monitor. It's now reduced to 2 different fullscreens. The latency is the smallest there.

External outputs - via output card, like Blackmagic monitor, Quad (Quad 2) etc... There is a latency between vMix and what this output shows. This is why some of us don't like to use it feeding projectors or large screens (for example, during concert, people see the latency looking at the stage and the screen). For me the latency is not that big, but some of us consider it unacceptable.


I have been wondering about the Airtop-PC which has both Intel Iris on-board video (3 outputs) and an nVidia GTX950 (4 outputs.) Further, the custom motherboard has a BIOS that allows both to be used at the same time. The manufacturer has some impressive videos showing a single Airtop driving multiple 7 displays in various modes.

I was wondering if this would allow expanded use of the "Full Screen" features?

Thanks,

Michael
r@wisla  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:20:44 PM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:

I was wondering if this would allow expanded use of the "Full Screen" features?


No, because vMix allows to assign its fullscreen to 2 displays only.
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mjgraves on 4/1/2016(UTC)
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