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New vMix user, need help tweaking my system
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Hello everyone, I am a new user of vMix 4K. I use the software for live video production for an MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) organization in the Chicago IL, Area. My current Workflow: I capture NTSC 1080i 59.94 HDMI feed With an Intensity Pro 4k (PCI) from a Blackmagic Television Studio Switcher (1 camera HDMI, 2 cameras SDI) I record an AVI video stream to my PC using the Magic YUV Lossless codec, 720p NTSC 29.97(average event footage is 4 hours in length and 250gb in size) I have a 1 camera Replay input recording the output window, 720p 29.97 at 25mbps. This is linked to a .png Image Sequence / Stinger Audio is handled by HDMI from the TVS, and a mixer connected to the audio input on the PC (3.5mm plug) I control the audio levels with a Korg nanoKONTROL2 I control the Logo (Bug) with shortcuts and triggers mapped to a ShuttlePro v2 (I'm not sure if I have the most eloquent solution for this... but it works) I control a time clock in a similar way (Same as above, there's probably a better way) I ran a test run tonight that went very well, but there were some problems. I will include my PC specs at the end of this post, but now that I have made the investment in vMix, I can make the necessary changes to address these glitches. At the 3 hour point I took a photo of the recording information screen, it said I had 96 dropped frames due to source frame rate. I think the dropped frames are a cause of pops in my audio track that occur intermittently. I also get a pop (rarely) when I click on the vMix Interface to select inputs. The software runs at around 15-25% CPU usage, and Render Time is 4-8ms. Windows 8.1 x64 ASUS M51AD i7-4790s @ 3.20ghz 12 gigs ram NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 180gig INTEL SSD System Drive 480gig SSD Replay Drive 480gig SSD Livestream Drive Intensity Pro 4k (PCI) Cpilcher attached the following image(s):  production.jpg (383kb) downloaded 41 time(s). information.JPG (512kb) downloaded 32 time(s). IMG_1303.JPG (318kb) downloaded 43 time(s). IMG_1307.JPG (443kb) downloaded 35 time(s).You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
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Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,636  Location: Canada Thanks: 33 times
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@ Cpilcher Sweet set-up! Are those touch screens? I would think you are pretty much "top of the line" on the hardware side and all indications are that the dropped frames are a "source" problem and not vMix (I'm not a big fan of Blackmagic's temperamental resolution and frame rate requirements, but maybe that's just me). I would also suggest that 96 frames over the course of 3 hours is pretty darn good. Does the TVS provide any info on 'dropped frames' or given you any issues with regards to capture? What are your 'Global' settings in vMix? (although there are no indications it's an issue, re-scaling is a process and can have an impact). What is causing the 'pops' in your audio? If you are able to 'recreate' them or perhaps eliminate them, then maybe you can test and determine if they are indeed the "cause" of the dropped frames. All-in-all, it looks like you are doing well to integrate the two workflows (ATEM & vMix) not the ideal, but if it works for you, go for it. If the 'budget' and/or PC will allow, I might suggest eliminating the ATEM and try any of the supported capture cards (Magewell or AJA would be my preference) as an alternative to get more functionality out of vMix, but that will not necessarily eliminate your 'issue'. Ice
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Thanks Ice,
No those aren't touch screens, just some old Dell monitors. I am using them to test configurations because space is limited near the "cage" where the fights take place. This is close to the final configuration, and I thought I would sacrifice these old monitors before I went crazy and ruined anything new. I have epoxied hinges on them so 2 monitors are connected like a clam shell, and can be opened and setup easily. My ultimate goal is to be able to wheel in my system, plug it in and get to work.
I'm open to change any of the hardware and the ATEM TVS is part of an older setup that I'm using. So that and the cameras will be the next upgrade.
My Global settings are set to 1280x720p 29.97. Since I only have one live camera feed that is interlaced(from TVS) and all my other assets are either still image or 29.97p media. This has given me the best result. I have tried several variations with the Global settings set to 1920x1080i 59.94, but it never seemed to run as smoothly.
In my last software I had to down convert to 720 because my PC utilization was around 85% (vMix runs all that and more at only 15%, simply amazing.). So without these limitations I can probably rethink my resolutions and get back to 1920x1080 across the board.
I realize the dropped frames are few and very far between but the audio pops are very noticeable and get encoded into the final recording as well as the live stream. I will run some tests and see if I can verify that the pops and the drop frames are connected.
And if you have any suggestions for what global settings to use given my setup I would appreciate it. If my system can handle 1920x1080 I can render new graphics since everything has been at 720 for so long.
As far as removing the ATEM from the workflow, I really need the mixing to stand on its own. I run the production and with Replay and starting and stopping the time clock, as well as adjusting audio, I wouldn't be able to get the best shot at the right time.
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@ Cpilcher
I like your ingenuity with the monitors, I had something similar in mind, only side by side like a book.
In terms of the ATEM in the workflow, I think you are doing it the best possible way (that's exactly how I conceived it when I pondered the possibilities), the other way is to use vMix as a source in the ATEM.
Either way, you lose a certain amount of functionality from vMix.
What originally attracted me to the ATEM was the tactile 'Control Surface' integration (vMix didn't have it at the time) and although vMix can use the Keyboard and Shortcuts, the main interface has to be active for the Keyboard to function that way, which can be a hassle if you have other functions to perform in other windows simultaneously.
That has virtually been eliminated now with the new vMix Control Surface and/or MIDI Control device support, and why I suggested the option to eliminate the ATEM altogether, which opens up the opportunity for additional cameras for 'Replay' and/or video delay with full functionality of vMix.
Even most of your requirements for the clock can probably be performed through the API and shortcuts, so essentially, everything can be 'run' independently (by different operators if necessary) and simultaneously.
Ice
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Rank: Advanced Member
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That would open up tons of new possibilities... Would there be a license issue with 3 or 4 people controlling different functions of vMix simultaneously? I would love to be able to mix inside of vMix and remove the extra "mixing" PC from the chain.
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Does anyone have any experience with this USB Audio Interface? I have a 4 channel Behringer mixer currently that I plug in to the audio In port on the back of my PC. I'm not sure if this would be a good addition to my setup, since I can now control the audio levels within vMix with a Korg Nano. I like this Motu unit because all the inputs are located on the back and that would keep my cabling away from operators. If there is a similar alternative around this price range I would be open to suggestions. I have never used any equipment of this type so any advice or recommendations would be helpful. Thank you. http://www.motu.com/prod.../motuaudio/8pre/i-o.htmlEdit: I would be using this in substitution of my current mixer. Since I have now made the final choice for my production software I will be changing out my equipment as needed.
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Rank: Advanced Member
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UPDATE: I have just finished the post production of my last event and I now have some examples to post regarding my issue. If you read the opening post I have included as much information as possible about my setup. By no means do I fault vMix for these problems, but I would like to get some assistance tracking down the root cause. The video posted below shows the "stuttering" that occurs, I believe when frames are dropped. The information window states the dropped frames are due to source frame rate. My PC runs around 3-15% most of the time, and I can recreate this issue with a Fresh vMix project with only 1 camera input from an Intensity Pro straight to my HDMI Cam. This removes the ATEM TVS as a possible cause...
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What frame rate are your cameras set to and what frame rate are you streaming at?
My cams are all set to 720 60p and I stream at 720 30p. The sound topic came up last week and you will find different "correct" ways to do it. I personally like having all my sound come in to my Behringer USB mixer and I control the sound thru the mixer.
Looks like you have a nice setup! Like Ice said, I would prefer to have capture cards and bring the video straight into vMix instead of using the ATEM. You could either use some PCIe capture cards or go with some HDMI>USB3 capture devices.
But if you already had an ATEM and it and need to watch costs, then by all means I would roll with what you have.
Tim
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Thanks Tim. The problem exists even after I remove the ATEM from the setup and go directly into the Black Magic capture card. I also only have room for 1 PCI capture card with my current PC.
My frame rate is 1089i 59.94 out of the camera and my vMix global setting is set to 730p. 29.97.
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Cpilcher wrote:That would open up tons of new possibilities... Would there be a license issue with 3 or 4 people controlling different functions of vMix simultaneously? I would love to be able to mix inside of vMix and remove the extra "mixing" PC from the chain. From a technical standpoint; should not be an issue at all, especially with MIDI, I have several boards myself separated into audio and video, It would be just as easy to break instant replay into its own station as well, just make sure to map the midi controls directly to the instant replay input. From a legal standpoint I don't believe there is a limitation in the number of "seats" in vMix, nor should there be, isolated purpose controllers are part of larger productions. Cpilcher wrote:Does anyone have any experience with this USB Audio Interface? I have a 4 channel Behringer mixer currently that I plug in to the audio In port on the back of my PC. I'm not sure if this would be a good addition to my setup, since I can now control the audio levels within vMix with a Korg Nano. I like this Motu unit because all the inputs are located on the back and that would keep my cabling away from operators. If there is a similar alternative around this price range I would be open to suggestions. I have never used any equipment of this type so any advice or recommendations would be helpful. Thank you. http://www.motu.com/prod.../motuaudio/8pre/i-o.htmlEdit: I would be using this in substitution of my current mixer. Since I have now made the final choice for my production software I will be changing out my equipment as needed. Have you tried using an ASIO driver on the interface and increasing the buffer?
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,636 Location: Canada Thanks: 33 times
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@ Cpilcher
I might be way off base here, but somehow it appears to me to be a 'power surge' of some sort.
Is it completely random or intermittent regularly and/or linked to some repeatable action (auto audio suppression perhaps)?
Did it ever happen before vMix was part of your workflow?
And am I correct that this is only observable in the recording and no visible glitch while "Live"?
Ice
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 8/3/2015(UTC)
Posts: 323
Location: Chicago, IL
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Was thanked: 57 time(s) in 47 post(s)
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I have never experienced this type of glitch before. It doesn't seem to be related to any specific action that I can reproduce, but it has done it when I add inputs or click on the audio controls window. But it doesn't do that often.
And I can see & hear the glitch live, I was hoping the recording would be ok but it was recorded on the final production.
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